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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hi jimmyd....
If its any consolation to you, I have a "stutter" problem as well and CANNOT find it. For me however, it only occurs when I hit an irregularity in the road surface such as a "bridge expansion joint" or a 'man hole cover' or here in New England leftover "frost heaves"... The stutter I have causes mine to momentarily decelerate which pitches me forward, and then just as quickly it resumes normal speed (as do I !)... As you can imagine, this is not only VERY annoying but also makes riding a problem... I have searched for "Bad grounds", "Loose plug wires", "Corroded connectors", "Battery terminals as well as battery voltage"....EVERYWHERE thus far without success ! IF you find your problem please let us know so that we can confirm or eliminate the same from my bike.. Thanks
BTW.... please add more data about yourself ( location ) and your bike ( model, year, accesories etc ) and place this in your sig line. Without knowing what you have, it is very hard to help you.
Best regards.........// Ernie in NH _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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Scott_Anderson Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 3128 Location: Central Iowa, USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: TPS |
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| Jimmyd wrote: | | Seems correct to me. Does anyone have the time to test a 93-96 K 1100 (RS or LT) TPS connector. If you use a digital volt meter to test between pins 1/4 on the connector what do you see for voltage with the bike on but not started? |
Ok, on my '97LT, ignition on, engine off, plug disconnected from tps. Measured 0.00vdc between 1/4.
Connected plug to TPS and measured .387~.388vdc between 1/4 at throttle stop. readings increased when throttle was opened. _________________ Ride safe.
1997 K1100LT 0302488
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1995 K1100LT 0302044(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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Jimmyd Big Brick Rider
Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 61 Location: CT/MA Border
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: TPS |
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| Scott_Anderson wrote: | | Jimmyd wrote: | | Seems correct to me. Does anyone have the time to test a 93-96 K 1100 (RS or LT) TPS connector. If you use a digital volt meter to test between pins 1/4 on the connector what do you see for voltage with the bike on but not started? |
Ok, on my '97LT, ignition on, engine off, plug disconnected from tps. Measured 0.00vdc between 1/4.
Connected plug to TPS and measured .387~.388vdc between 1/4 at throttle stop. readings increased when throttle was opened. |
Is the 97 LT the same as the 93-96 RS/LT. I thought the last year of this style was the 96 RS/LT. If the electrical systems are still the same in 97 as the 1994, then I have a problem.
Anyone have a source for a full schematic?
I'm pretty good at finding the electric issues if I have a wiring diagram and know how the systems are supposed to work. |
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Scott_Anderson Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 3128 Location: Central Iowa, USA
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well, there are some schematics out there, not sure I would call them "full" or not.
This is probably the best link I can direct you to for color diagrams that I'm aware of.
http://k-technik.pytalhost.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=7&Itemid=53
The author is German so you will need to open the link with Google Chrome or some other form of translation software unless you can read German.
My '95 is buried in the back of the garage or I would be able to take some TPS readings of it as well. _________________ Ride safe.
1997 K1100LT 0302488
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1995 K1100LT 0302044(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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Jimmyd Big Brick Rider
Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 61 Location: CT/MA Border
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: TPS |
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| Scott_Anderson wrote: | Well, there are some schematics out there, not sure I would call them "full" or not.
This is probably the best link I can direct you to for color diagrams that I'm aware of.
http://k-technik.pytalhost.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=7&Itemid=53
The author is German so you will need to open the link with Google Chrome or some other form of translation software unless you can read German.
My '95 is buried in the back of the garage or I would be able to take some TPS readings of it as well. |
I'm staring to think the 94 K1100RS is setup differently then the 97 LT. In fact I think the LT wiring may be different all together then the RS wiring.
It kinda of does not make sense that there would be zero volts between pin 1/4 .
From what I have gathered so far the TPS is just a big variable resistor, so there would have to be some voltage input to the TPS. Then the TPS would drop/change the voltage level as it is varied. _________________ 1994 K 1100 RS |
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Jimmyd Big Brick Rider
Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 61 Location: CT/MA Border
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Ernie-NH wrote: |
Hi jimmyd....
If its any consolation to you, I have a "stutter" problem as well and CANNOT find it. For me however, it only occurs when I hit an irregularity in the road surface such as a "bridge expansion joint" or a 'man hole cover' or here in New England leftover "frost heaves"... The stutter I have causes mine to momentarily decelerate which pitches me forward, and then just as quickly it resumes normal speed (as do I !)... As you can imagine, this is not only VERY annoying but also makes riding a problem... I have searched for "Bad grounds", "Loose plug wires", "Corroded connectors", "Battery terminals as well as battery voltage"....EVERYWHERE thus far without success ! IF you find your problem please let us know so that we can confirm or eliminate the same from my bike.. Thanks
BTW.... please add more data about yourself ( location ) and your bike ( model, year, accesories etc ) and place this in your sig line. Without knowing what you have, it is very hard to help you.
Best regards.........// Ernie in NH |
My issue is consistent at all times. Once the bike gets 3 - 5 miles (basically is warmed up) the issue is consistent at all speeds at all RPM's _________________ 1994 K 1100 RS |
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merlin geikie Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 343 Location: Lismore far north coast nsw australia
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Jimmyd reports;
| Quote: | | (basically is warmed up) the issue is consistent at all speeds at all RPM's |
Have you considered hall effect sensor (HES)?
There is a test with the heat gun to warm the HES.
If you warm the HES to operating temp with the heat gun and start the cold engine and it exhibits the warmed up engine stutter with a cold engine but a warm HES then you have it.
In higher gears the motor is under higher load when given gas.
Fuel pump pressure should be 30psi I think and that is enough with pump on to squirt fuel across the shop floor a good ten or fifteen foot with fuel line diconnected from fuel rail, no smoking of course .
Ernie's fault at hard jolt used to happen to me with my ol airhead and turned out to be a bad ground.
The K11 has insufficient ground from battery neg to main earth and the cable can go bad even though looks OK from the outside, I think a cable gauge upgrade is the fix with the bad ground in older K11s.  |
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Thedodge Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Apr 2011 Posts: 33 Location: Old Isleworth, middx, West london, England.
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: Plug life. |
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| Das Boot wrote: | Grid,
I d try the cheapest things first. 10k to me is the life of plugs for a bike, the car I double that but, I would start there. I know a lot of people use different brands of plugs, I never had any luck with anything in a BMW besides BOSCH or BERU spark plugs. I would torque the spark plugs to 20ft lbs and make certain the caps are tight.
Then try the old trick of running the machine in a dark garage, look for any arcing or sparking down at the wires. Poor mans method but it works for this case I think.
The other thing is gas, if you havent been riding much it could be old gas, the stuff in the winter in the North East area is that oxygenated nonsense that runs like do-do anyway. Look into the tank and make sure there isnt any water it. Fuel filters can get clogged even at 10k miles.
Best of Luck, | I was just wondering why you feel that a set of plugs will last twice as long in a car, compared to a K? _________________ K1100 lt 97' |
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Scott_Anderson Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 3128 Location: Central Iowa, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Plug life. |
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| Thedodge wrote: | | I was just wondering why you feel that a set of plugs will last twice as long in a car, compared to a K? |
I would have to say to that, our bikes run at least 2x the rpm of a standard car when cruising down the highway.
My K rpms at about 3700 at 60 mph, where my siverado truck is at about 1800 rpm at 60 mph.
Also the ingition systems on the bikes are a "wasted spark" design. Meaning each plug fires 2x per revolution. cyl 1-4 fire at the same time, and then cyl 2-3 fire at the same time as well. _________________ Ride safe.
1997 K1100LT 0302488
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1995 K1100LT 0302044(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Good morning Merlin....
Re: ""I think a cable gauge upgrade is the fix with the bad ground in older K11s. ""..... what gauge did you upgrade to ?? The Battery to Engine ground on my bike appears to be appx. AWG 8 (stranded) with soldered end terminals. Plus both battery end as well as engine end show no corrosion, are secure and torqued down heavily. The next set of "grounds" run from the engine body ( close to the primary engine ground ) over to the "coil array". That ground as well as the wire leads shown no corrosion, are tight, and the insulation appears to be complete and uncracked. I would like to check the TPS, but the unit is sealed, and I dont seem to be able to get to the pins ( 1 and 4 ) when connected in order to measure the voltage. Scott has done it, but I cant imagine how !
I have also checked for a 'cracked' porcelain on one or more spark plugs, but I am going to check again, more thoroughly this time. I have gone thru the harness from end to end and each connector as well. The is so "eff-enn" frustrating since it ONLY happens when hitting slight jolts etc.. Guess one could say, "..just ride on the smooth parts, dummy !! "
Best regards "down under", and if you do have an AWG "upgrade" or equivalent recommendation please let me know.
Ernie in NH _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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Scott_Anderson Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 3128 Location: Central Iowa, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Ernie-NH wrote: | | Scott has done it, but I cant imagine how ! |
I'll dig out the camera and take a picture for you.
I just got the '95 out of the garage today so I'll check the tps voltage and take a picture of how I did it. _________________ Ride safe.
1997 K1100LT 0302488
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1995 K1100LT 0302044(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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Scott_Anderson Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 3128 Location: Central Iowa, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: |
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OK, here we go.
Started here:
Disconnected connector and slide the rubber boot back off of the connector.
Small aligator clips work best, but I only have the medium sized ones here at home.
Then just plug the connector back into the tps and take your readings. Adjust if needed.
BTW, this bike also read .000 when plug was disconnected and power on.
When you are done, just remove the clips and put the boot back into place and reconnect it.
Id suggest a little dielectric grease or some silicone grease just to help keep out any moisture from the connector. _________________ Ride safe.
1997 K1100LT 0302488
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1995 K1100LT 0302044(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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Jimmyd Big Brick Rider
Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 61 Location: CT/MA Border
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott_Anderson wrote: | | Ernie-NH wrote: | | Scott has done it, but I cant imagine how ! |
I'll dig out the camera and take a picture for you.
I just got the '95 out of the garage today so I'll check the tps voltage and take a picture of how I did it. |
I did not try to pull the boot back off the connector. Did you ever measure between pin 1/4 unconnected to see what voltage level you get?
I just pulled the fuel rail and the Injectors . I'm going to have the injectors cleaned, as I suspect they have never been done.
I also see that a couple of the fuel lines look cracked on the out side.
I'm not sure if that's and indicator of what the condition of the inside of the lines is, but since I have gone this far I think I'll pull the throttle bodies and get at the fuel lines and replace them all. _________________ 1994 K 1100 RS |
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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Scott....
Thanks.... I didnt pull the boot back either.. for some reason I thought it was a molded assembly. Now... to the VOM... to the bike...!
Very best regards..........// Ernie in NH
BTW... you gonna bring that HD, or one just like it, to HM-V next May ?? _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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Jimmyd Big Brick Rider
Joined: 13 May 2011 Posts: 61 Location: CT/MA Border
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: Stuttering/Missing |
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| Ernie-NH wrote: |
Hi Scott....
Thanks.... I didnt pull the boot back either.. for some reason I thought it was a molded assembly. Now... to the VOM... to the bike...!
Very best regards..........// Ernie in NH
BTW... you gonna bring that HD, or one just like it, to HM-V next May ?? |
Yep
Thanks I pulled back the boot. I thought that was molded connector as well.
Wiring looked fine so far as I can tell its not the wiring to the TPS.
I have pulled the two fuel lines that look bad. Going to go get some fuel hose from the local auto spot today.
If the dates stamped on the hoses indicate the manufacture date these hoses are from 1993. 4/34/93 is stamped on the hoses??? _________________ 1994 K 1100 RS |
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Scott_Anderson Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 3128 Location: Central Iowa, USA
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott_Anderson wrote: | | BTW, this bike also read .000 when plug was disconnected and power on. |
Jimmy, yep I did. It was the same as the '97. _________________ Ride safe.
1997 K1100LT 0302488
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1995 K1100LT 0302044(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hello all....
First.... THANKS to all for the many many "suggestions" and "how to's" relative to solving my "jolt/stumble" problem. I now KNOW that my wiring is sound, every connector has been 'de-oxed', every 'ground' is clean, tight, and secure, the TPS is functioning as it should, throttle cables/twist grip mechanism OK, Injector caps OK, fuel pump and filter OK, fuel delivery lines OK..... etc etc...
I have just come back from a short 50 mile 'stumble free' ride and can report that when removing the spark plugs, I found a spiral ring lodged in the well of plug #4.. It seems this ring did not allow the "kluge-y" BMW metal plug cap to seat fully and apparently would 'bobble' and break contact whenever the bike experienced a jolt. Since removing this ring, and noting that none of the other metal caps have this ring, the bike now runs flawlessly once again !!... in German we say "....Glück im Unglucke" because this fault caused me to go through EVERYTHING, thus doing maintenance and inspection that I might not have otherwise done, and NOW I'm certain that the things I mentioned will now be less prone to failure in the near future...ie: " good luck as a result of bad luck !"
So once again THANKS to all who stepped up and offered their suggestions... I hope that JimmyD will find his problem shortly as well...
Very best regards...........// Ernie in NH _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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Scott_Anderson Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 3128 Location: Central Iowa, USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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The factory caps do have a ring on the plug end. It's possible that yours came off of the cap. _________________ Ride safe.
1997 K1100LT 0302488
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1995 K1100LT 0302044(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Scott....
I switched to NGK caps on my Airhead, and have NGK caps on my old Virago as well... What do you think about changing out these OEM BMW metal caps ?? They seem drastically 'over designed' and not 'space efficient'. I noted that none of the caps had this spiral ring, so I'm wondering if they simply fall off with use ??
Best regards...........// Ernie in NH _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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Scott_Anderson Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 3128 Location: Central Iowa, USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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I personallty have switched to Realm wire sets on both bikes, so I'm not using the factory caps/wires anymore.
I think from age alone I'd be getting rid of original wires anyway. I've noticed a lot of owners replacing fuel lines and vac lines and other rubber bits due to age, well plug wires are no different, they age as well. _________________ Ride safe.
1997 K1100LT 0302488
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1995 K1100LT 0302044(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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