K11 Owners Group

[m1ks]

This is transferred from the Flying brick forum I joined the other day prior to finding this one, thought this might be useful being more model specific?
Note, am now aware of the coolant / oil pump seal rebuild I need to do.

Just in case I hadn't noted it
K1100LT SE
96
103000 miles when collected
SH to 84000 ish miles

Right all,
Grab a coffee and get comfortable, this could be a long un.
I bought a 96 K1100LT Special Edition which i collected on Saturday morning and rode home from Surrey to the Scottish Highlands, just over 600 miles.
It's a Silver with full luggage and 103000 miles on when collected, fairly high for some bikes but thought a better bet with a BMW K series.

While I was pleased overall with the performance, behaviour and the journey in general there are some concerns.
I'll list them in the order first noted.

Water / coolant drip, from the front of the engine I noted a drip, not excessive but there, this being on the first coffee and fuel up stop, (see pic), I topped up the overflow tank with water, (it appears this is all it has in there, no evidence of coolant, this was apparent on the second stop then seemed to dissapear on the rest of the journey to re-appear today whilst getting pics etc.


Temperature, overheating and dodgy guages, whilst in heavy traffic on the motorway, (due to the UK's odd belief that at least one third of the motorway network should be covered in red cones blocking at least one lane per side and workmen appearing to do little), I'd been keeping an eye on the temp guage which had been down in the blue / cold area all the while, it had risen to just over the first bar outside of the blue and the temp warning light on the dash display came on, this is when I noticed the real reason for the fan override switch, i.e. the fan doesn't cut in, flicked it on and within a few minutes, (nowhere to pull up), it extinguished, whilst rolling it's all fine and the needle stays in the low area.
Now clearly the display is not functioning correctly? I assumed that mid to three quarter should be the 85 - 100 degree section where the fan should cut in? How do I check this and rectify it's useage, also, how can I correct the non cutting in fan? I don't mind flicking a switch but would like it to work as it should do. (see pic)


Oil,
Now, when I collected the bike the previous owner, (who was relatively new to biking, not too sure about the in's and out's and trying to find his suitable machine I guess), advised he had topped off the oil and coolant, (water). Oil was at the top ring of the viewing hole, upon checking it today, (running engine on mainstand till reached about where the temp guage was averaging then switching off to check after 10 min), ground as level as manageable, (very very slight variations to level on the yard), the level was under the middle dot, the bike has spent as little time as possible on the sidestand, only when intially stopping and just after taking off mainstand for setting off, it seems a lot of oil but a cold start after being on the mainstand didn't seem to spit out any oil.
Now of course there are a few other factors which may have had an affect? I unintentionally laid the bike over to the left on arriving at a friends house on night one where I was statying due to missing a kerb which I rolled in against, nothing much hurt beyond my street cred for what that's worth, cut the ignition and managed to right it and set on mainstand so I know i might have had a bit drain through then and of course the temp thing, if the bike had reached the 115 degree point maybe the engine heat had an effect?
In all i'm concerned as it seems quite a bit of oil, halfway down the sight glass, even considering i've covered just over 600 miles and much of that was 80ish MPH on motorways, not entirely sure how much that equates to but i'd love to hear peoples thoughts and ideas on this. Do your's use oil at all?

There's a video link here to the coolant drip which should clarify it a bit
coolant video

I noticed quite a bit of spitting and popping through the exhaust when rolling the throttle to a close with the odd backfire type noise, is this normal? (i.e. rolling closed from 70mph on the motorway as traffic slowed ahead)

Lastly, (i think, unless something else occurs), there was on the last (wet and cold) leg of the journey a couple of moments of what felt like carb icing, (hesitation / stttering / misfire tyoe sensation when accellerataing to overtake slower vehicles, it was at a higher altitude, (highland roads), than previous and was wet and cold but I wouldn't have thought that injection would suffer from these kind of symptoms?

So in summary we have
Coolant
Temperature
Oil
Backfiring
Icing?

Otherwise, I was very pleased with the way it performed, managing a nice steady 70 - 80 on the motorways with luggage loaded, (camping gear and general bits for stops on the way up) and feeling like there was plenty more go there, (as i'd expect it to), it's incredibly comfy, the only bit of me aching is a small calloused portion of my right forefinger where it was under pressure from constant throttle useage.
The bike is relatively tidy, it has a couple of blobs of epoxy on the headlight which seemingly are covering chips but it's clean enough inside the light unit, the front tyre will need replacement v soon as it's near the tread wear indicators, (surprised it managed the MOT and would have expected at least an advisory), reckon it has another 1000 miles at best but wasn't happy with the white lining feeling of it anyway, (running Michelin Macadams but will look at Avon I think, I generally like Avons), rear tyre is pretty good.

OK, hope to hear many thoughts and suggestions on the above, apologies for anyone i've bored senseless.

Cheers,

Mike

N.B.
The weathers been slightly drier today so had a chance to check compression.
Spark plugs are black and carbon fouled, running rich for some reason? though fuel consumption has been averaging 50ish MPG



Left is as removed, right is after being brass wire brushed

Coolant / (water as it happens, seems the seller might have fibbed a wee bit when I asked if there were any fluid leaks at all, can't imagine he'd miss this one and all water no antifreeze, hmmm eh), up to top of fill cap and overflow to max



Compression read out at
1 - 130 PSI
2 - 135 PSI
3 - 135 PSI
4 - 140 PSI

From front of bike, relatively cold, just a brief warming run, so good and strong all cylinders.

Also found a mystery connector under tank, badly repaired at some point, one broken wire and not connected to anything, related to radio maybe? as this is not working.





One final thing?
Under my top box is a small black cylinder connected onto the rack with a cable running from it and running under the left panels, could anyone tell me what this is?

Sorry for the uberlong post all but would greatly appreciate any assistance.

Cheers,

Mike

[Don Sproule]

Hi Mike,

I don't have much time (or expertise) to get into your issues at the moment, but the answer to your 'final thing' is: it's the plug to connect the speakers for the top (trunk) box. The other end is on the box.

Don

[RobWheatley]

Hi Mike and welcome to the forums.

Have to say your a brave man riding an unknown bike 600 miles home, I thought I was when I collected mine from Belfast and rode the 480 miles!

Right back to the bike.

Temp/coolant/overheating.

The temp guages on K's work on a different sensor to the cooling fan, the sensor for it is on the water/oil pump at the front of the engine, easy to get too (there are 2 there, one is oil pressure warning) Check the wire/connector there are not corroded causing high resistance, take the wire off and with the ignition on ground it to a good earth point, it SHOULD peg the guage to the HOT. if not then its the wires to the guage somewhere or the guage its self. Mine sits just above cold most of the time and the fan cuts in when it gets to the first mark, they are all different!
The cooling fan is operated by the Motronic unit under the seat Via a relay in the box under the fuel tank. If there has been a bypass switch fitted my guess is that the relay is toast, there is a procedure for checking the fan in the stickies. The sensor is on the block and this is also what the motronic uses for the injection system.

Oil
K's do use oil, sometimes they use a lot sometimes they dont and that can be the same bike different days!! Mine will drop about the same as yours over a week to 2 weeks (440 -880 miles) depending on how it feels. As long as its not blowing blus smoke its not really too much of a problem.

Back firing can be normal for a K too, it could be a leak or crack on the exhaust or it could be the TPS slightly out of adjustment, quite often mine will let out and almighty BANG like a gun going off, normally when feathering the throttle, Scares the S**t out of cage drivers have a look aroung the head/pipe joint as they doo leak there (you can normally hear it) and aroung where the 4 pipes joint the collector where they are prone to cracking.

Dont think a K woudld suffer from icing, they put out enough heat to stop that. might be worth replacing the fuel filter (inside the tank) and checking the HT leads as a first stop, also check the big plug going to the motronic, My RS had one single corroded terminal and that used to play up every now and again.

Plugs might be black from running at idle for checking the oil etc or it might be due an air filter (could be another stutter reason)

Hope its been of some help.

Rob
_________________
1999 K1100LTIC Smooth and Quiet Cruise, BFD & HID
1996 K1100RS. dead but not forgotten.

[Flying Duck]

What color are the wires on that connector? If they're purple/yellow stripe and brown then that would explain why the fan isn't working.

The cylindrical thing on the top box is most likely for rear speakers.

Temp gauge: The lower, more forward sensor on the water pump is the temp sensor. Remove the lead from that, turn the bike on and ground that wire. That should peg the needle.

Sloppy firing: Check/clean the connector to the Motronic (fuel injection computer). Also check the wiring to the fuel injectors and make sure the spark plug leads are firmly attached to the plugs.

If the temp light in the cluster comes on then shut the bike down and let it cool.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

[m1ks]

Great starting point and things to check, thanks for the responses so far.
Just to clarify, the wire to check for temp sensor would be the one just above the word Drip in my first picture?
The one behind being oil which would makes sense given the positions of both?

I assume from that then, the K1100 doesn't have the sensor at the rad bottom like the K100?
So far, no nasty smoke on start up or general running and it was hot on the motorway when I had the temp light come on, typically it was also in a place where I simply couldn't stop but thankfully the fan once flicked on cut the light after a minute of idling but I guess this would've eaten a bit of oil.
Hopefully once I've rebuilt the pump seals and refilled with a proper coolant mix and sorted the temp thing it'll even out the oil side.

Have already given the Motronic plug a clean as there was some pretty greenery in there, (noticed when unplugged to disable injectors for compression test), gave it a clean with WD then coated with silicone spray grease, (which i've recently started using for electrical connectors, especially exposed ones, seems to work well), hopefully that'll stall any potential probs there.
Read in a tech sheets someone mailed me about shorting over a relay under the seat to test the fan and temp guage so will look at that in addition to the bits mentioned, although I was a mechanic electrics were never my strong point but with the info I have hopefully should be able to discover whats what.

Thanks again and any more keep em coming.

[RobWheatley]

Yes the temp sensor is the bottom one nearer the drip.
Has it missed at all since cleaning the motronic plug, fair bet it was that causing the problems.

Taken this from the Stickies section:

Fan Test:
To test the fan circuits, Ignition ON, Engine OFF, ground pin #1 for 10 seconds. The fan will cycle intermittently and the temperature warning lamp (or the Test LED, if connected) will flash 3333.
This indicates that the fan test is in progress. This test will continue to run until the ignition is switched off.

NOTE: Fan Test for Motronic 2.2
John from Down Under adds this:

"Fan Test works on Motronics 2.2"

1. Ignition must be OFF
2. Ground Pin 1
3. Turn ignition ON
4. Count to ten (1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi,...........)
5. Unground Pin 1
6. Fan will intermittently run until ignition is turned off
"pin 1" is on a blue connector usually behind the side panel or under the seat, it will have 3 wires to it and a blanking end fitted (unless it has been lost)

That will test the fan but not the temp guage as its on a different system.

Rob.
_________________
1999 K1100LTIC Smooth and Quiet Cruise, BFD & HID
1996 K1100RS. dead but not forgotten.

[SugarHillCTD]

Mike,

Flying Duck (I think it was him) documented the "hiding oil" phenomenon. The oil level showing in that sight glass seems to have mystical qualities- or should that be mystical quantities.

There have been times when I will look at the level before starting it in the morning and it will be at the center dot. Later that day after it has been sitting for a while it might be the same - or - halfway between the dot and the bottom - or - halfway between the dot and the top!

Overall the amount my engine burns seems to be related to outside temperature- warm days- 80F or higher will increase consumption. But from what I have read here every brick is different and it is not necessarily dependent upon mileage.

Your temp gauge looks as if it reads low compared to mine. My normal operating temperature is right at the middle of the dial and the fan would come on just as the needle touched the red zone.

I have done the manual fan switch mod and it has made warm weather/ slow in-town riding much more comfortable.

Good luck with your bike.
John
_________________
John & Cathy

'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F.

[m1ks]

The temp guage is certainly way out, my only concern there is that it will affect other running components, obvious one being that it doesn't switch the fan when it should.
Had it just been a dodgy guage and everything else worked OK i couldn't care less but as it does seem to be affecting other bits it concerns me somewhat.
I would expect, (especially with a german guage), the mid area to be the 'normal running' section and like you say wouldn't expect to see the light until the red or hear the fan until just before the red.
I do know the fan was replaced when the manual override switch was fitted so likely the old one had seized, at this point clearly the fault was noted, (i.e. it wouldn't switch on) and the override swithc was fitted.
hoping that replacing the faulty guage will rectify this, I don't mind switching manually when needed but would rather it does what it should when it should.
The oil is definitely weird, i topped it up with some regular 10/40 i keep in the garage, (changing it soon anyway) to the 3/4 level, ran it then checked again last night and it was below the dot? It was run only for a few minutes, guess it's a quirk i'll get used to, I've had some engines in the past that need the lump to get quite hot then stand for 20 min before all the oil has seeped back to the sump.
OK off to find a blue connector and hopefully, pin one, fingers crossed.

[Flying Duck]

The temp sensor on the water pump and the temp gauge are an isolated circuit and have nothing to do with engine management or the fan.

There is a temp sensor on the coolant outlet at the front of the head. This is read by the Motronic for engine management and the Motronic triggers a relay to kick the fan on.

The disconnected connector you found (purple/yellow striped wire and brown wire, right? ) is the connector for the fan so it looks like the fan has been unplugged (and I guess rewired to a switch?)

Once the engine has been run it takes a while for the oil to seep back into the sump.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

[m1ks]

Will check the wiring colour, someone mentioned it was for rear top box speakers so until now have ignored it.
(Speakers being not too important)

Up to date though.
Located blue socket and tried the ground pin 1 test, both methods as not sure if i'm on Motronic 2.2 or whichever?
neither worked, however, when grounded through pin 1 the temp light light up and stays lit whilst grounded but off when not.
Manual fan cuts in with fan relay removed and ignition off too so clearly been wired stright through to permanent swtiched live.

How do i test the relay for correct functioning?

Just off to check the block connector now

Fun this isn't it?

[Flying Duck]

[m1ks]

Will check the relay tomorrow as per your suggestion, (vehicle electrics were always my weak point so happy to try any method)
Had a trace about of the fan wires and can see it's attached solely to the override switch.
Brown from fan to ground near injector rail, yellow / purple from fan to switch,
fused live direct from battery to switch so constantly live, think i'll swap that to a switched live from the fuse box at some point, it's only a matter of time before some clever bugger plays with the switches and leaves the fan running to flatten the battery, even my wee boy, he's a sod for resetting my trip meters if I leave a bike out while he's playing on the yard, drives me crackers as I use them to calculate fuel consumption averages.
So the fan clearly won't function from the relay regardless.

Now the plug under the tank has a yellow / purple wire but the other is just ripped clean out leaving a few strands of copper so can't tell if it was a brown wire, nothing evident to plug it into and no evident loose wire which should form the other half of it, i'd guess the plug would come from the fan to match it?
As for the missing wire no idea where that should be.
Interestingly theres another plug looks the same with yellow / purple wire and brown wire plugged into a female socket with the two outer wires and a blue middle one?
Unplugged whilst running and nothing appeared to happen so no idea whats what there.
I'll forget about the fan circuit for the minute but still test the relay as i'd like to get it back to normal at some point but still retain the manual override.

Had a quick look at the sensor under the front and it was manky, green and corroded, gave it a good clean over with sandpaper and wd, caked in lithium grease and refitted, made bugger all difference to the temp guage so the sensor might be iffy, can check that when I do the water / oil pump rebuild, the oil switch oddly is pristine and shiny.
Can't think of anything else at the moment but sure i'll be back

[Wrigsby1]

Hi

A late entry to this thread...

You have plenty of stuff on the oil/water pump and the temp sensors and fan. A couple of other things are change the coolant and check the cap seal carefully. My recent addition had a botched cap arrangement that had me worrying about a PO masking a head gasket prob but things seem to have settled down.

The pressure in the system is very important on K's as they run hot for the fan to work and can boil if things are not up to spec. It's such a simple thing but decent coolant and pressure is what keeps it cooling correctly. My gauge sits at 1/3rd for normal and higher when in traffic.

I checked my K11 fan by rigging it straight up to a battery and it worked fine.

Get a service kit fitted ASAP so that you can see about the rich running from fresh. The state of air filters can be a shck as they are a PIA to get to for non BMW enthusiasts! Those plugs were very black and my experience is a very light brown colour is the norm. BMW run thier bikes lean. There is always the CO pot (on electrics box behind the TPS) which may not have been adjusted correctly.

The K11 pipes are a pain for cracking but a decent welder will sort that. It's getting them off that is the difficult bit.

My present K11 uses very little oil, my last one was about the depth of the sight glass per 750 miles (no real smoke), my K100 nil, none, zero, ever! My R11's use a bit sometimes. That is the BMW way... The oil level can change noticable up, down, up per day but not so much on K's. Best checked pre ride after a good stand.

Icing of injectors i doubt but if it's running rich it may be spluttery if the air gets damp. Worth checking the details of the recent thread on Throttle Body balance and checking all the rubber bits for leaks inc crankcase breather, manifolds and the rubber caps for the balance pipes. They are all pretty cheap if needed.

I have just fixed a few things on my new K11 and am very happy with it. They are usually great bikes unless seriously neglected. Might try Conti Go! tyres. I have fitted a back and it seems fine.

I picked up my K in Manchester and then went to Shetland via Sheffield. The last was London via Cornwall back to Shetland. My GS was Chesterfield, Cornwall, Shetland. All adds to the fun and that's what the AA is for!

Cheers
G

[Flying Duck]

[m1ks]

Hi wrigsby, welcome to the party, glad to have you here.
I went via Sheffield and Mansfield, (stayed over with friends), loved the journey I have to say and wasn't overly worried re potential problems as I have recovery if things had gotten desperate.
Thinking about the plugs, i honestly couldn't say when they were changed last as the guy i bought from didn't seem very savvy, seemed the sort who went to a garage when something needed rather than keeping on top of it.
Service history to 84000 ish miles so who knows for the last 20,000.
Will be servicing the whole thing anyway and best to start with all fresh then keep a check on the plugs and see how they burn from there.
Hows the riding in on Shetland?
Over to Scalpay, Harris fro time to time to visit friends there but not visited any of the other isles.

[m1ks]

[Flying Duck]

I'll drop by in the morning.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

[Wrigsby1]

Motobins for a service kit for about £40. My bike was down on detailed history but as most of the work is fine for DIY then the FSH goes west anyway. I keep my own service log and can bore rigid any potential customers in explaination! "I used to sell BM's and so now I do all my own work!" Ahem, better that way!!

I use Motorworks mostly but 'Bins or 'Works are both excellent to deal with.

The roads on Shetland are long, pretty straight and mostly smooth. More exciting "mixing it" is on the other side of the ferry. The roads in the Cairngorms etc are great bike territory but some of the bumps suite my GS better.

The wind is back with Autumn and that is the biggest factor as there are few trees and everywhere is next the sea. I try to be a year round biker but usually miss 2 to 3 weeks due to wind or snow!

For long trips get a Throttle Rocker or Wrist Rest. They are the biz and are more useable in the UK than a Cruise Control for a fraction of the price. Ebay have a selection...

Enjoy the riding.

Cheers
G