K11 Owners Group

[malakiblunt]

will clutchless up shifts work-damage the gear box?

as i understand it most bike boxes are fine changeing up with out the clutch my old suzuki loved it, but down shifts can ware out the selector forks.

incidently i was lead to belive bmw boxes are clunky but my 99n is realy light and smooth only problem is the odd false neutral particuly between 4th and 5th.

[owrstrich]

i often clutchless up shift the bug eye motobrick with no problems detected to date...

j o
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yeeeeeehaaaaaaa...

[Flying Duck]

I do it on ocaasion when feeling laxy. As long as it feels smooth you're probalby OK doing it and not doing much, if any, damage.
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93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

[Scott_Anderson]

I have it occasionally happen to me when I have too much upward toe pressure and ease off the throttle too quick before I touch the clutch.
I try not to make a habit of it though.
_________________
Ride safe.



1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

[BobZ(IL)]

It's kinda like driving a big truck, match engine revs to transmission speed and gears change like going through butter. No damage.

Higher gears on the way up are easiest and will eliminate missed shifts.

A friend rode bitch with racer/instructor Reg Pridmore one time on the track and said he thought the bike had an auto-trans, such smooth shifts, clutchless.
_________________
'93 K1100LT
'78 R100S
'05 R1200GS
BMWMOA, CRBMWOA, ABC, K11OG #997

Live well, do good work, enjoy the ride.

[malakiblunt]

cool! thanks guys

like i say i used to do it all the time on my suzuki it makes all the difference when your accelerting hard.

i shall give it a try tomorow

like i say ive been very pleasently surpised by the box heard so many storys about them, i would say its nearly as good as my suzuki and is a silver spoon stiring double cream compared to my harley!

[chopper_harris]

And a fully synth EP80 will make a huge difference.

I use Motul Gear 300 75w90 - you can buy it from M&P, Busters etc.
1 Litre is just enought for the box and the f/drive.

You will believe that the pixies are working the spoon for you
_________________
C1 200 (2001)
R100 RS (1990)
NSU Quickly N (1964)
Honda 400/4 F1 (1977)
MotoGuzzi 1000C (1978)
Suzuki TL 1000 R (1999)
Kawasaki KLV1000 (2005)
K12R Sport (2007) - Wifeys

[malakiblunt]

cheers Chopper i was actualy running motul fully synth in the harley box and it was still like rummerging in a bag of spaners.

im wondering if the police put fully synth in ther bikes coz its pretty smooth.

but i will be giving the bike a full sevice shortly and will defintly be puting synth in.

[darkwing]

I just got my first BMR in April of this year with 87K on it. I noticed it was the jerkiest shifting bike I had ever been on- when using the clutch to up shift. I said what the hell and started doing as I have on other bikes and cars--DRAG SHIFTING! On the upshift 2-3... just hold a little pressure on the shifter and flick the gas! It falls right in smoooth as SILK. Not so good 1st - 2nd though and never on the down shift. Havent had a problem yet. I get so use to it I sometimes forget ...untill my wife headbutts me with her helmet. then I remember.

hope this helps.

[fnord]

I was in Maine one time, heading home to CT (about a 6 hour drive) on my KLR 650, which had a really stiff clutch.

As I pulled out of the gas station after topping off, I pulled in the clutch and heard and felt a <PING>.... Oh shit. Heart starts racing. Well, we'll see what happens.

About half a mile later, another ping. Stop, look, see nothing funny, no fraying cable, but I'm afraid it's up in the sleeve. Ping. Ping.

Ping.

So I cross my fingers (it's Sunday, no shops would be open, and this was before the days when I could carry the internet in my pocket) and head home, hard shifting the whole way, and using the clutch just for stopping and starting.

Oh joy, toll booths. With 10 minutes of stop and go to get to them. Heartbeat ratchets up a bit more.

I finally made it home, much to the amusement of one of my neighbors, who couldn't believe anyone would ride a dirtbike from ME to CT. I got it into the garage and took a good look at the cable to see how close I'd come.

It turned out that the little clutch lever entering the gearcase needed to be lubed. The cable was fine.

That's the "Adventure" part of touring, right?

[Jim]

Reece - don't know if you've seen this or not - works well for me. It's posted in the tech articles here at K11:

How to Shift Your K11
by Dana Priesing

1. Preload the shift lever with your left foot. The amount of pressure involved is very slight: greater than mere desire, less than a push or pull. Just preload it enough that the muscles of your foot and ankle tense, and any slack in the shift linkage (think of the shift linkage as the bike's muscle, or an extension of your's) is gently removed, and the shift drum and forks, if they were released from the clutch-driveline pressure, would rotate and slide in the intended direction.

2. Pull the clutch lever in, but *just enough* so that the clutch-driveline pressure is reduced enough to that the drum and forks are released to rotate and slide. You don't need to pull the level all the way in to do this. 1/4 to 1/3 of the way will do it. (Stop thinking of the lever as an on-off, two-position switch. Think of it as a means of altering a how much pressure two rotating surfaces are exerting on one another. It's a pressure gradient dude! The further you pull in the clutch, the lower the pressure. Okay?) If you're having trouble executing this, try using just two fingers, or one finger, to pull the lever. That'll slow you down some.

3. Snick. The clutch-driveline pressure falls below some significant point, and suddenly the shift drum rotates and the forks slide the gears, instantly, noiselessly, before the flywheel even has much chance to slow down. You'll feel this, and you'll smile and say "yeah" to yourself.

4. At the moment you feel it, and without relaxing your foot, release the clutch lever.

5. Simultaneously, adjust your throttle to keep that flywheel spinning at as close to the same rpm as it was before. Some transitions, e.g. 1st to 2nd, or 3rd to 2nd, may require a little more throttle than others.

Practice this technique and your shifting will become smooth, quiet, you'll never miss a gear again. You'll smile when rookies talk about clunky-shifting K-bikes, because you know the secret.
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."

[K11Martin]

The harder you're accelerating, the smoother 'clutchless' upshifts become. I shift up without the clutch almost all the time. Hold the toe firmly upward against the lever, then really really briefly 'twitch' the throttle off and immediately straight back on again. With practice it works even at slower speeds, but at slower speeds it's usually better from three to four and four to five.

The trick is that you must be accelerating for it to work properly, even if only gently. It won't work properly with a constant or trailing throttle.
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Currently riding a '93 K1100LT (ABS1) decked out with lights and aerials (Ex 70's Vespa rider)

Why not join the UK owners club at http://forum.bmw-club.org.uk/

[marlin]

I'm glad this subject came up. I do it a lot, and was wondering if its hard on anything. I've spent the last 13 years driving truck and I know most of them shift better without using the clutch. Its all in your speed and your RPM's
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1993 K-1100LT. 1986 K-75C . 1992 K75RT. 1976 Honda CB 750A

[Flying Duck]

I've never really understood this preload the shifter thing. I found that just putting some miles on and becoming familiar with the idiosynchrasies of how K bikes shift was enough.

(Then again, I used to park a lot of 911s when I was a valet in college. In order to make good tips, I learned very quickly how not to grind the gears when the owner was in sight. )
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

[K11Martin]

Doing clutchless changes in a car or truck involves a completely different method from doing it on two wheels. On a bike, it's primarily done to enable you to reach a given speed faster that you would do by using a clutch, but in a car, the only real reasons I can find for doing it (apart from a failed clutch) are to minimise wear on the clutch, or to increase your sense of mechanical empathy with the vehicle (basically just to prove that you can do it). It's actually very relaxing and looks cool when you have passengers, but it's a leisurely thing. You mustn't be in a hurry.

On a bike, to obtain fast upchanges, you need to preload the shifter so that as you 'twitch' the throttle, the engine doesn't have chance to lose revs, and the bike drops smootly into the next gear. You can't do it with downshifts as the engine and transmission speeds need to be matched, which is impossible without having a neutral between every gear.

In a car, you accelerate, then brielfly lift the throttle while applying gentle pressure to the gear lever to pull it into neutral. Usually, by the time you've pulled it out of gear, the engine revs will have dropped to a level too low to match with the new gear (unless accelerating hard in a large Diesel truck), so you briefly 'blip' the throttle as you apply pressure onto the gear lever for the next gear. As the engine speed passes through the correct point at which it matches with the speed which the transmission needs, the gear lever will slot effortlessly into gear.

Similarly for downshifts (in a car), but they take a little more planning and require a more forceful 'blip' of the throttle to match the engine speed to the transmission requirements. It takes much practice to get away without using the clutch in an urban environment (still on four wheels, remember), and it develops your awareness of what's going on around you to a greater degree than driving with a clutch. It's very difficult to explain until you've tried it, but I actually thinks I'm a better driver, because of the following story.

Many years ago, I used to drive a recovery truck (The Wrecker) for a garage. The first time I went out on a recovery, to learn the ropes, the driver taught me how to perform clutchless gearchanges in it. Apparently all those who drove The Wrecker would use the clutch just for starting off, but once on the move, would not use it again except when traffic conditions got hairy.

When I queried the reason for driving it that way, I was told to ask the workshop foreman about the clutch in The Wrecker, but to keep our driving method a secret.

So, at the first opportunity I asked, 'What's the story with the clutch in The Wrecker then, George?'

'Unbe*******lievable?', he says. 'It's done over 200,000 miles and still looks like brand new. I can't understand it, especially when you think what loads it carries. I wish I could get hold of another ten like it, but I've hassled the suppliers to get me some from the same batch number, and they say it's not possible. Between you and me, I reckon Borg and Beck must have been using some experimantal compound and realised that it would probably put them put of business, so they withdrew it.'

We never told him - does that make us bad people?

I've driven/ridden many hundreds of miles over the years in/on vehicles where the clutch has failed, and it becomes a kind of a game, tryingto anticipate the traffic lights, the junctions, and the other traffic so that I wouldn't actually have to stop. Starting off in a vehicle which has no clutch is a whole new ball game, and defintely is not something I'd do just for the hell of it.
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Currently riding a '93 K1100LT (ABS1) decked out with lights and aerials (Ex 70's Vespa rider)

Why not join the UK owners club at http://forum.bmw-club.org.uk/