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DaveVoorhis
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 223
Location: Derbyshire, UK
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 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Mystic Red wrote: | | I didn't see this in any of the above replies but using the front brakes with the wheel turned at slow speeds will put you down quickly! I don't cover my front brake in parking lots for that reason. |
Second post from the top and third from the bottom on the first page. I guess you lot ignore any posts from folks in the UK? 
Stopping in general with the wheel turned increases the chances of being off-balance and dropping the bike. Always, always, always straighten the wheel before you stop, regardless which brakes you are or aren't using. When I was growing up in Canada, I was amazed how many people didn't know this -- to the point that I gave up on group rides due to the risk of having someone else's bike dropped on me at traffic lights. UK riders seem to be a lot better at this -- I guess the curvy roads and junctions have purged that particular bad habit.
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'93 K1100RS
Dave #3 |
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rover759
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Houghton Regis,UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Well I have dropped mine in my garage!!
Seems there is a very definite point of no return on these machines!! 
I have a 29"inside leg and I have no difficulty touching the ground,but then I weigh enough for two... 
Amen to just using the rear brake
If you want to stop dropping your K....
http://www.grinnallcars.com/content/scorpion_III/photoalbum4.html  |
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quadrabrick
Mad Brick Rider
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Quadra Island, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Dave. I agree whole heartedly. I was referring more to shuffling the bike into a parking position after stoping with the wheel straight, just to get it into a parking spot. This is when I have the most probelm, after stopping.
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'93 K1100 LT
'80 Honda CX500 Custom (8000 kil.)
www.pbase.com/henryimages |
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Mystic Red
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2330
Location: Twin Lakes Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Second post from the top and third from the bottom on the first page. I guess you lot ignore any posts from folks in the UK? Confused
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Yea, I did see THAT post Dave, sorry. What I meant was, when performing low speed maneuvers, stay off the font brakes. I didn't notice that you mentioned the front brakes at all. My mistake. At low speeds you can use the rear brake, even in a turn.
Yes, we are a sorry lot over here.
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Scott Hespelt, '94 K11LT
K11 OG #466 |
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DaveVoorhis
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 223
Location: Derbyshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mystic Red wrote: | | Quote: | Second post from the top and third from the bottom on the first page. I guess you lot ignore any posts from folks in the UK? Confused
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Yea, I did see THAT post Dave, sorry. What I meant was, when performing low speed maneuvers, stay off the font brakes. I didn't notice that you mentioned the front brakes at all. My mistake. At low speeds you can use the rear brake, even in a turn.
Yes, we are a sorry lot over here. |
I would argue that with the wheel turned, you should stay off all the brakes, full stop (pun intended). Low-speed maneuvers with the wheel turned should be regulated with a combination of throttle and clutch, not with either brake. When the bike comes to a stop -- though whatever means -- the front wheel should be straight. Personally, I suspect that with the wheel turned, using the front brake is (slightly) more likely to make you tip than the rear not because of something inherent in front-braking, but because it exerts a stronger stopping force and is harder to regulate whilst you're exerting turning effort on the bars.
_________________
'93 K1100RS
Dave #3 |
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ljjohns
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 263
Location: El Paso
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'd suggest that when the front wheel is braked at an angle, the momentum of the rest of the bike pushes the front wheel to a full lock position, making it a virtual pivot.
That's sure what it felt like when I dumped the K12LT three times in six hours |
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Mystic Red
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2330
Location: Twin Lakes Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I would argue that with the wheel turned, you should stay off all the brakes, full stop (pun intended). Low-speed maneuvers with the wheel turned should be regulated with a combination of throttle and clutch, not with either brake. |
That's not what I've been told/taught over here. You are right when you say low speed maneuvers should be regulated with a combination of throttle and clutch but that combo is much more efficient when applying some rear brake also. Not that I'm an expert but this guy is one. Here's a video (he sells them) and if you look closely you can see them work the rear brake as they turn slow speed. Also, you needn't look closely to see their brake lights activated in virtually every turn. My point was that if you touched the front brake in maneuvers like this you very likely hit the pavement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHo6kZc33Ks&NR=1
This is pulled from a review of his video:
| Quote: | | Palladino describes three simple techniques that are the foundation of motor officer training and which can help us reform our bad habits. Unlike a movie, I’m not giving away anything by revealing these techniques, since Palladino covers them in more detail and outlines a series of exercises to put them into action. To comfortably handle a motorcycle at low speeds, Palladino suggests that you must 1) stay within the friction zone of the clutch, 2) keep pressure on the rear brake and 3) point your head and eyes where you want to go. |
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Scott Hespelt, '94 K11LT
K11 OG #466 |
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DaveVoorhis
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 223
Location: Derbyshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ... Palladino suggests that you must 1) stay within the friction zone of the clutch, 2) keep pressure on the rear brake and 3) point your head and eyes where you want to go. |
Points (1) and (3) are spot on, and while it's reasonable to "drag" the rear brake during low-speed maneuvers (drill-team formation riders do this, for example), this requires considerable practice and the risk of over-braking (and then tipping) is high. It's safest to only turn the wheel whilst accelerating or moving at a constant, stable speed, keep off the brakes when turning, and always straighten out when braking. This may require a bit more planning when navigating parking lots and driveways, but IMO the improvement in stability is worth it.
Try it, and let me know what you think.
_________________
'93 K1100RS
Dave #3 |
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CheapJapCopy
Mad Brick Rider
Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 137
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| DaveVoorhis wrote: | | ..while it's reasonable to "drag" the rear brake during low-speed maneuvers (drill-team formation riders do this, for example), this requires considerable practice and the risk of over-braking (and then tipping) is high. |
CBT students up and down the UK have to demonstrate this to get their certificate these days, rear brake applied doing figure of eights, U-turns etc. It's quite easy as long as you slip the clutch and look way over at where you want to end up.
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1992 K1100RS - Red and gold. |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10102
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Just about eveything I've read/learned/etc... recommends controlling your speed by using clutch fiction and rear brake as opposing forces more or less. You'll have better speed control that way than only using the clutch.
http://bcrider.com/practice.html
http://www.ridemyown.com/articles/riding/BTB-slowspeed.shtml
http://www.beaconridertraining.co.uk/DAS_125CC_MOTORCYCLE_TRAINING.htm
And lots of other places recommend this technique too.
I'm not going to reread the whole thread but "counterleaning" (leaning the bike in the direction you're turning) and moving your weight to the outside also helps because it shortens the turning radius.
The real key though is practice. Find a parking lot and make tighter and tighter turns.
Look where you want to go.
Counterlean.
Clutch slippage.
Rear brake to control speed.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
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wiener
Brick Rider
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 26
Location: Northern New York
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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These baby's were designed for the open road. If your going to ride around town get some thing else.
As you can tell we're all in similar boats. I love my bike as long as I'm cruising, in town driving can be like walking on thin ice when your 5'8"on a 1100LT.
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"Wiener" KOG#86, BMW MOA Member
Pat Wearne
94 K1100LT
"Feeling the Heat" |
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Moondog
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 670
Location: Richmond Hill, Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:15 am Post subject: |
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I dropped my K1100RS at the Rhinebeck Aerodrome in NY. We were allowed to park on the field whilst the cars used the parking lot. The "field" was bowl shaped, dirt gravel rode around it, all kinds of mounds and generally not a good place to park a bike or even ride around. Because of that I had to do some slow moving on very uneven ground, dirt, sand, gravel, etc. Having my wheel turned to tight to get out of my spot, going over the edge of the grass which was a big mound and not keeping my head up helped me go over. Man was I upset. $1500 bucks worth of new paint screwed up. And I missed hitting a LT with a side car by M.M.
I learned my lesson about being very selective where I park and have to slow maneuvers. If the parking lot doesn't fit my criteria I move on. I am going to avoid gravel parking lots, irregular ground, etc, etc.
_________________
"Badges? We don't need no stinking badges"!
I like the social aspect of riding. Rally's, socializing, drinking beer, fartin' and carrying on. 
2004 R1150RS
1996 K1100RS (moved on to new home) |
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Shoganai
Biscuit Fluffer
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 2234
Location: Culpeper,VA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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I have a 29" inseam  , and the Shop Whore is narcoleptic
I can't count the times she's been on her side.
I'm all about Princess Parking
Now, if I can just talk her out of playing in the dirt...
_________________
1993 K1100RS aka The Shop Whore
1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak
The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT
Nana korobi ya oki |
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