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Back brake again.
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Al.
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 383
Location: West of Ireland

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2022 6:15 pm    Post subject: Back brake again. Reply with quote

I see a post from last year about back brake jamming on.

Well, happened me Sunday and the boot went on fire.
I was down on my hands and knees blowing out.
I was on a country road when I began to notice something odd going on.
I stopped to see clouds of smoke and the rubber starting to burn.

Luckily the flame did blow out.........

It happened before the piston got stuck due to corrosion in cylinder. I put in a new piston and it was fine until now. Not certain of exact cause yet.

I haven't got time to strip it down yet.

Do the splines need to go back on exactly as they were before??
I read something about that long time ago.
I won't be taking out driveshaft I don't think.
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Jim
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Joined: 17 May 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:17 pm    Post subject: Rear brake fire Reply with quote

A couple things... have you replaced your brake lines / hoses? They can look fine on the outside, but be rotten inside, and can actually create sort of a check valve - allowing fluid to go one way, but not the other.

Did you make any adjustment to the rear brake foot lever travel?

Those are the 2 most common rear brake problems I can think of at the moment.
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1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - has gremlins!
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10086
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a set screw of sorts with a locknut on it that controls the amount of freeplay in the rear brake lever. That being too far in is what causes the brake cylinder piston to get pushed in too far so that it gets stuck on the master cylinder's set screw. Back that out some to avoid this in the future.

Rear master set screw that the piston gets stuck on if it gets pushed in too far:



What to loosen to adjust freeplay:




Yes, you need to "phase" the front and rear halves of the drive shaft:

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/dsphase/dsphase.htm
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86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
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John Clauss
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Joined: 04 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the brake hoses go bad on my RS. Caused the same issue, but never caught fire. I have been looking for some stainless steel lines and having trouble finding them for my LT. Any suggestions would be great.
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Flying Duck
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Clauss wrote:
I had the brake hoses go bad on my RS. Caused the same issue, but never caught fire. I have been looking for some stainless steel lines and having trouble finding them for my LT. Any suggestions would be great.


I get mine from Motobins in the UK. They sell lines individually as opposed to in kits but they're less expensive than what Spiegler charges.

www.motobins.com
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86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
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Al.
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 383
Location: West of Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all that.
I'm planning on complete replacement of cylinder.

I have fitted braided hoses a few years ago.

I notice black grease around the moving parts on
universal joint. Should it be black? or is that from
the heat from the disc. Is it possible to lubricate it,
or is it a write off.

Motorworks have a repair kit for bearings with removable
grease nipples. £95.
The bearings aren't good.

I marked the disc so I hope to put it back as found.
At the moment I can't see the UJ at the gearbox I
haven't really tried hard yet.
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Flying Duck
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al. wrote:
Thanks for all that.
I'm planning on complete replacement of cylinder.

I have fitted braided hoses a few years ago.

I notice black grease around the moving parts on
universal joint. Should it be black? or is that from
the heat from the disc. Is it possible to lubricate it,
or is it a write off.

Motorworks have a repair kit for bearings with removable
grease nipples. £95.
The bearings aren't good.

I marked the disc so I hope to put it back as found.
At the moment I can't see the UJ at the gearbox I
haven't really tried hard yet.


I don't think a heated up rotor impacts the drive shaft.
As long as the drive shaft U-joint is tight and rotates on both axes without lumpiness you should be OK. There's no way to lube them.


It's worthwhile to get those upgraded FD to swing arm bearings from Motorworks because the factory ones have a plastic bearing race so they fail easily.

In the US Ted Porter sells something similar:
https://www.beemershop.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TRA11092

Marking the rotor to have the FD splines install in the same position is a good idea. I'm going to add that to my drive shaft phasing web page.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
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Jim
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:50 pm    Post subject: Drive shaft phasing (youtube vids) Reply with quote

Worth a watch - or two...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaaTyL099RA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRkYhI1afHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt69zYAcXME
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Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repairing
1992 K75RTP 46,000
1992 R100R 24,000 - FOR SALE

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."


Last edited by Jim on Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Flying Duck
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Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Drive shaft phasing (youtube vids) Reply with quote

Jim wrote:
Worth a watch - or two...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaaTyL099RA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaaTyL099RA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRkYhI1afHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt69zYAcXME


This vid shows why the paralever FD needs to remain level and parallel to the transmission output shaft:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idk3BVDVHq4&t=103s
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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Niemand
Mad Brick Rider


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 106
Location: NC, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the graininess of that last vid, I was expecting some Turbo Encabulator enlightenment. Twisted Evil

John - I went with Spiegler for my brake lines and they did not disappoint.

Here's the '94-'97 LT kit:

https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/cycle-brake-line-kits/bmw-k-1100-lt-front-rear-brake-line-kit-k-1100-lt-s-bm0107.html
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niemand wrote:
With the graininess of that last vid, I was expecting some Turbo Encabulator enlightenment. Twisted Evil


It's not a 4K porn video. It's just a motorhead video with a demonstration overview of how driveline physics work in the real world. Sorry if you're disappointed.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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Al.
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 383
Location: West of Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for information.

One thing I noticed in the BMW manual is that you should preload
the torque arm before finally tightening the bolt. They say 85kg
on the bike.

I saw a video where the guy says that pivot bolt on the rhs should be
tightened to 10/12Nm instead of the 7Nm as in the BMW manual.
I didn't notice what Clymer says. He also got a long socket and cut
the side out of it so that he could hold the pivot bolt with an allen key
while tightening the lock nut.

While I marked the disc I'm not sure how much play is in the drive.
I think it was mentioned that one spline out could make a difference.

BTW I'm in west of Ireland where the grass is green Very Happy
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al. wrote:
Thanks again for information.

One thing I noticed in the BMW manual is that you should preload
the torque arm before finally tightening the bolt. They say 85kg
on the bike.


I've never bothered with that and none of my final drives have exploded.

Quote:
I saw a video where the guy says that pivot bolt on the rhs should be
tightened to 10/12Nm instead of the 7Nm as in the BMW manual.
I didn't notice what Clymer says. He also got a long socket and cut
the side out of it so that he could hold the pivot bolt with an allen key
while tightening the lock nut.


I'd go with the 7 recommended in the manual unless the instructions that come with the new bearings indicate different.

I have one of those cut up sockets with a hole in it that came with one of my bikes. I don't bother using it though. It's just a locknut. The exact torque on the locknut isn't critical. It just needs to be tight enough to keep the pivot pin from turning. The important thing is to tighten the locknut while using an Allen wrench to keep the pivot pin from turning.


Quote:
While I marked the disc I'm not sure how much play is in the drive.
I think it was mentioned that one spline out could make a difference.


There should not be any play in the FD. The free play in the rear wheel when the bike is on the center stand is from the transmission.

Quote:
BTW I'm in west of Ireland where the grass is green Very Happy


But is the beer green? (Our bars in the US serve green beer on St. Patrick's Day.)
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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Al.
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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Location: West of Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eventually got the bits from Motorworks.

But distracted now. Bought a 2010 Audi TT
Quattro 2l diesel. Having issues with diesel
particulate filter. Seems to be an issue with them.
Never noticed about it in looking them up.
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Al.
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
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Location: West of Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and, it's very difficult to see the orientation of the joint at the gearbox.
I am reluctant to pull the driveshaft in case I cannot get it back on the
gearbox spline. I think I mig be able to get a mirror on an extender
up beside it.
does it have to be precise, is a spline either way critical.
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Flying Duck
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your method of marking the brake disc before removal and reassembling with the brake disc in the same position should work.

I think being one spline off vs. 90 degrees off would be better but it would still be slightly out of phase.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the paralever drive shafts, the front 1/2 of the spline joint, the female socket end, is mounted (ie surrounded) via a rubber sleeve. You could call it a mini shock absorber so to speak... if the socket has slipped in this rubber mount, you may not get a true, 100% yoke alignment anyway.
The only real way to know if this has happened is to remove the entire shaft and assemble both halves on a flat surface to check.
You might could see up the swing-arm to gauge the position of the front yoke, but it would be by sight only....
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Flying Duck
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott_Anderson wrote:
With the paralever drive shafts, the front 1/2 of the spline joint, the female socket end, is mounted (ie surrounded) via a rubber sleeve. You could call it a mini shock absorber so to speak... if the socket has slipped in this rubber mount, you may not get a true, 100% yoke alignment anyway.
The only real way to know if this has happened is to remove the entire shaft and assemble both halves on a flat surface to check.
You might could see up the swing-arm to gauge the position of the front yoke, but it would be by sight only....


If that rubber around the front half splines is slipping then you're not going anywhere anyhow. LOL. (I've never heard of that happening.)

The downside of a U-joint 'splodin is pretty bad. For the amount of effort required to pull the swing arm and make sure I think it's worth removing the swing arm to be sure if you don't trust the marking the brake rotor method.

JMHO
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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Al.
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 383
Location: West of Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your efforts.

If I pull the shaft to align and mark it up, is
easy to get it back on the gearbox spline??

Didn't notice anything about the rubber around
the front spline in the manuals.
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Flying Duck
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The splines are mounted in rubber inside the front half of the drive shaft.


_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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