K11 Owners Group

[Beachcomber]

Hi Guys,

anyone fitted an oil cooler to their Kay? I'm thinking of standard automotive style cooler.
Thanx
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Beachcomber '93 K1100RS / '93 K1100LT and several K100's

[Rafal]

Hello!
Well I was thinking about doing oil cooler. First look how it is made on K1200RS. To make long story short: there is a module between oil pump and engine housing, that holds the thermostatic valve and fitting for hoses. This element controls oil flow in short circle when cold and through radiators when hot.
My first thought was to use an automotive adapter with thermostat mounted under the oil filter, so called sandwich adapter.

But that requires shorter oil filter and some how hoses to be routed through the oil pan. Low profile sandwich adapter can be found and thermostatic valve can be installed outside of oil pan too.
The second approach is to modify original oil pump housing and add external pipes and thermo valve. Yet since I don't have a spare oil pump body to exam nor I can't image the oil flow just by looking at diagrams, the whole operation is changed to installing 3 core radiator and slim, high flow fan.
The topic of oil cooler is very interesting and I would like to hear more about it.

Best regards,
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Rafal
K1100RS is a real beast (in Marrakesh Red)
K75S is a real beauty - she has gone , but not to far .

[Saltcreek]

why?
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Jim

1994 K1100LT Mystic Red, bfd, 37000 miles, sold
2009 Wilderness Systems Zephyr 155 ST
2002 Litespeed titanium

[drikko]

[merlin geikie]

Thing is, oil coolers were around at the time of the invention of the K motor and its application in a bike.

The K motor is well designed in itself.

Oil flow differs greatly along the temperature gradient.

Tampering with the oil flow could have dire results.

Rather risky IMHO, also adds clutter and more stuff to beggar up (tech term).

Someone else, who knows more than me, on the Forum may chip in and explain better the dynamics of oil flow.

There are only a limited number of K11 motors left.

[Beachcomber]

Thanx for your input Rafal.

I was also going along the lines of a sandwich plate directly on the oil filter housing [ as automotive practice ] and then bulkhead fitting stainless hoses through casing. An additional / replacement external oil filter could be rigged up if required.
Alternatively it has been suggested that a 1200 oil pump / gears and housing might do the trick.

As to the WHY - Saltcreek, Drikko, Merlin. I doubt if BMW envisaged an additional 100 bhp or so courtesy of a Turbocharger and Nitrous Oxide?
That brings up another round of "whys" - just let me pre-empt that by saying - "because I can".
As to the tampering etc. - been doing that for 50 years now [ 45 as a business ] including 1500+ BHP blown / injected / Methanol Drag Cars, Circuit Race Cars and I've come to the conclusion I have a rough idea what I'm doing [ Ahh- also an auto engineering design graduate ].

The very fact that the 1200 has an oil cooler seems to indicate that the 1100 might be approaching the need for a cooler anyway under certain circumstances.

You're right about one thing - the engine has been built to withstand much more than the 90bhp or so in it's factory guise - that's the very reason [ that and silly cheap prices ] that has drawn me to the marque in the first place. Well designed - yes in the main, but there's no such thing as the perfect anything that's man made.

"There are only a limited number of 1100 motors left" ......................true, but I've got 5 in my garage which should see me out [ 66 last week ]. Oh and before I get accused of wrecking all those nice standard bikes - 2 points -Hot Rodders were around a long time before restorers and 3 of the engines were "rescue pups" that had their heads sold off for Mini A series conversions - now wearing 8V heads.
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Beachcomber '93 K1100RS / '93 K1100LT and several K100's

[merlin geikie]

No worries

Yes I have heard and seen the great results of the turbocharging section, truly amazing and a great use of 'rescue pups'.

The oil cooler would probably be a necessity for this sort of modified application, certainly IMHO be advisable

Reckon that 'because I can' is good enough reason for most anything.

Wishing you both well with the projects and I'm sure it's great fun too.

All the very best indeed .

[6899]

I dont think this is practical but it sure does pique mechanical thinking and sometimes the most hare brained ideas or questions are actually good or lead to further discussions.

Cheers for all questions..

_________________
1996 K1100LT, 73K (bought at 61K on 2006)
1977 R100/7, bought new, rode 97K in 29 yrs before parting out
1970 R50/5, bought used, rode 40K & sold

BMWMOA #6899 since 1976
Indy BMW Club since 1975

[michaelcurrin]

I've always wondered if it could be done by swapping in a K12 oil / water pump.

The RS sidecar rig already has a three core radiator, after market fan and an adjustable fan cut in switch, all of which seemed to have helped, but will still get pretty hot during spirited riding.
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Mike Currin
20 BMW R1250RS
93 BMW K1100RS / EML Speed 2000
06 Ducati ST3
67 Triumph 650 chopper

[AUSBRICK]

I,m with you Beachcomber, do it because you can. While I,m on I thought it might be time someone mentioned that the spirit of sharing info on this site seems to be open to attack [ notice how beachcomber has to defend his reasons for asking about oilcooling] . Opinions are like arseholes everyones got one and they nearly always stink.if you got nothing to add on the subject of use don,t bother. Ks are great bikes but all great things can be improved and I for one get a real kick out of trying. Get radical Ausbrick Mick
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92k1100 lt with sidecar. 93K1100 CAFE..86K75C.95 k1100lt

[RAL88]

I'm with Ausbrick. I am usually, if never vocal about these things but I feel the need to say that I have seen a turn in the forum in regards to less than positive comments to members and their ideas. Personally I am a little discouraged by this. This is not what I would expect from a forum like this. The old adage "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all" is very true. I have a thick skin but some of the comments I have seen are really not necessary. My dad, who was a science teacher for 30 years had a plaque over his desk that read "Engage Brain before Disengaging Mouth" I would like to see us get back to that in this forum. If you would like to rip into me for this that is fine. As I said I have a thick skin but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't be disappointed.
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Rich

"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R

[Saltcreek]

Well I guess I started it. I didn't mean to criticize, I just couldn't imagine the need. Maybe I was too concise.
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Jim

1994 K1100LT Mystic Red, bfd, 37000 miles, sold
2009 Wilderness Systems Zephyr 155 ST
2002 Litespeed titanium

[Flying Duck]

Maybe it's just me but I find the whining more disturbing than the "criticism."
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93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

[RJTrucker]

I kinda like the whining. Isnt that why they/we are called K whiners?
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Ron
1993 K11LT
1985 K100RS with over 100K on it
1985 K100RS Luftmiester Turbo Work in progress (any help is appreciated)
1974 R90/6

[AUSBRICK]

Your probably right Duck but you got to admit that the tech pages are turning into a bit of a chatroom, which is ok. I,ll just have to learn to ignore the dribble. Ausbrick
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92k1100 lt with sidecar. 93K1100 CAFE..86K75C.95 k1100lt

[drikko]

I only asked why out of interest, not to criticize. Maybe anything I say now needs a disclaimer......

As to whether to have an oil cooler or not, sure if you are hopping it up with turbo or nitro or anything it would be a necessity, totally agree.



Disclaimer:- Anything I say may have been when I was drunk so please don't take it personally.
_________________
K1100RS '97
Laverda RGS 1000 '84
Jim Young Trailer Sailer 5.7M WB

DISCLAIMER:- Anything I say may have been when I was drunk so please don't take it personally.

'Bigamy is having one wife/husband too many. Monogamy is the same.'
Oscar Wilde

[Flying Duck]

[Beachcomber]

Hey guys - no offence taken , just explaining why the oil cooler IMO is necessary. I've been told most of my business life "can't do that", "that won't work". With over 1000 of my speciality and replica sports cars sold [ Jaguar, Porsche, Cobra ] - I'm glad I didn't listen to all those who queried my sanity.

If I had listened to all the nay sayers on BMW forums [ Worldwide ] - I wouldn't now be playing with Kays - but something more used to that kind of modification - Honda, Suzuki, whatever - where the more looney element is positively encouraged.

However, if it were NOT for the same forums and guys willing to push the envelope a bit, I would not have learned [ courtesy the Mason - sorely missed] NOT to concern myself about fitting a K1200S wobbly 5 spoker wheel to my K1100 or indeed the 4.5" 3 spoker to my K100 !

Being a design engineer by training and trade - I was Horrified at the offset in track AND I had fully intended to offset the CDS in the frame to allow for that and re-centralise the wheels - then the Mason came along and pointed out that ALL BMW's run out of track with larger rear wheels. Indeed, having checked, the BMW OEM manual allows 3/8" offset.

Ditto - can't fit a 1" shorter shock on a Mono rear end as it "will lock up and throw you down the road" as we say in the good old Anglo Saxon vernacular - bollox.

The Turbo has been done of course in the US [ and no doubt elsewhere], but I can't justify a $3K - $5K outlay on a "toy". Plus the fact it's more interesting if I work it out myself.
Drikko and others - no disclaimers required - you asked "why" and I told you - I'm a fairy, my name's nuff - fair y nuff?
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Beachcomber '93 K1100RS / '93 K1100LT and several K100's

[Beachcomber]

and another thing......................

Sorry forgot the base question !!!!!!!

OK - we looked at the K1200 components today and initially it all looks good. That depends on a regular source of 1200 pump assemblies [ secondhand of course ] as to whether it's a viable swap. We'll try it out on a spare block next weekend and if it works I'll start collecting 1200 pump assemblies!

I imagine in marginal conditions - sidecar, really hot environment, as well as highly tuned - this mod could be useful.

Not TOO many will be tuning [ serious tuning ] their Kays - but at least if it works, there is a solution ready for maybe no problem !!! A bit like the Vincent 1000 engine.
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Beachcomber '93 K1100RS / '93 K1100LT and several K100's

[michaelcurrin]