K11 Owners Group

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: My wire harness melt down

Ok, no good deed goes unpunished. All moto geezers know this.
I was riding most of the day Sat on them sweet mountain roads around the MOA rally. Sorry no pics, next year for bike mounted camera.
After getting back to the rally I monkey around with that old LT so in desperate need of TLC. Posted in " Campfire" missing clutch actuation bolt & lock nut. Had to pull all my tools out to do it too, both rolls of them. Anyway, my bike was running good, no issues, cover up just before evening.
Pack up camp in the AM, all loaded, turn the key, choke on, hit start, vroom vroom like always, BUT!!! WTF is all that smoke, oh GOD no!!!! Hit kill switch, turn off key, side panels off, pop seat. Most of the smoke is gone, but the smell of burnt wiring remains. NICE!!! Evil or Very Mad

810 miles to get home and I got a mess. Evil or Very Mad

Pop tank, hold it kinda on the bike & my knee's. Turn key, see smoke & red hot wire very quickly! Turn off key, disconnect harness were wiring is red hot. Fricken yes I burned my fingers, GD that's hot! Wave smoke away, throw head back, curse gods and electrons and moto heap engineers. Twisted Evil

Turn key on again, no smoke. Isolate the wiring with tape leaving that connector unconnected. I have full instrument's lights & guages. NO fuel guage, temp guage or rear brake light. I have turn tignals and a head light & a running moto heap. I go for broke & head home.
13 1/2 hours on the button 818 miles going the long way round Chicago.
Here's a picture of my melty harness with isolated offender. It was shorted out up by the steering head I believe from too tight tie wraps, but I also found a spot worn through on the throttle cable exposing the wire winding. Either could have provided enough rub / friction to wear through and ground out and melt it down. I need an old harness form a crashed bike OR prefferable JUST that melty part cut off up near the steering head so I can splice it all back to gether. Need both connectors male & female.
Here's the pcitures.

Me VERY happy leaving for rally.

Please help if you can. I think I could rebuild it with wire and a connector from something else, but yoiu know, I'd rather fix it right and solder and shrink wrap everthing nice & tidy.
Thanks.
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1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

John Clauss · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject:

This was the Moto-Gods way of punishing you for not being in the beer tent with me, Ted and Das Boot. Kidding.

Sucks about the harness, good save though glad you were able to make it home.
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1997 K1100LT
1975 R75/6

It will bring you so close to nausea, it will make you sick! - Big Al

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: bummer

I was around, even had on my black K11OG shirt all day Thursday!
Sorry I missed you guys, I was lookin.

If Klinker gets a mid westy thing going I'll show up.
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1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: why did it short?

Spent the last hour carefully peeling back the harness and fixing any little nick along the way.

It now apears to me that the wiring was pinched where it enters the temp guage cup. There is a big burn flash up one side of the temp guage and all teh wires are toast. The brown ground is destroyed all the way back to the main box!
So, check and make sure you ain't pinched ther. My guage has been acting odd for a while, I've asked about it before. Funny too as it's been spot on as of late. The fuel gauge side of the harness is fine, but since they branch together I'll just buy a used harness from the bone yard so I can get that guage wiring and then just re-wire in the lower part. I just wanted everyone to know to check that spot and make sure the wires are not pinched there.
_________________
1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

whyoldbill · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: why did it short?

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: harness

too bad you couldn't get the "missing clutch actuation bolt" rider to give you his. he'd surely never miss it... Then again, it probably burned up years ago.
_________________

Yowza Whyoldbill!

Yeah, he'd probably miss that I'm thinkin.
_________________
1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

whyoldbill · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: harness

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:14 pm Post subject: wiring harness

+1 to that! Smile

I spent a bit on it this evening. You can seperate out the fuel & temp gauge harness from the main.
So with a bit of cutting & unwrapping I was able to do that & pull all that stuff out. But, the ground wire on the temp gauge side burned all the way into the main harness. As hot as it got I'm surprised there is not more damage
Will still need to buy a used harness, then I can cut & combine just what I need & save the rest.
I will then assemble it all and power up. If all comes back, good to go. Just power down and spend a bit of time rewrapping it all up to prevent a future short. I'm convinced now it pinched way up by th etemp gauge and the wire was kinked where it entered the gauge cup.

Going to need a different guage too as the wires are all melty right up and into the back of it. Fuel gauge side is AOK, but it comes as a whole on the harness.

Just too much fun, but i ans damn lucky it was not worse and i could ride it home. Ran like a top all the way back, 44 - 47 MPG at 80 to 100 MPH.
Made the 818 miles in 13 hours flat including gas stops.
_________________
1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

merlin geikie · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:29 am Post subject: Why didnt the fuse blow?

Howdy folks,
Just been reading bout the dangerous meltdown.

Did the fuse not blow cos the temp sensor/gauge is wired into the harness and therefore no fuse?

Would putting a fuse in help avoid these situations?

Where would you likely put extra fuses?

Great pic of bike and rider, thanks.

Wishing you all well
Clear skies n safe rides Wink

merlin

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: fuses

Given this was a short I think it's difficult to predict and guard against with a fuse.
Once that small wire got full juice and a direct ground the built in fuse system was bypassed and it got red hot very very quickly destroying the insulation and melting anything it touched.
While I wait for the used harness to arrive I'll keep inspecting for damage to other wires and repair all that I can in place.
As of right now I think I need only replace the gauge wiring part o fth harness. I was able to seperate that out so, I'll now rewrap the main harness and then route the used part over the top and on the same path, but not combined like the stock harness was.
I'm not an expert, just reporting on what I find and how I'll try and fix it without going to the dealer. I'm fairly certain the cost of a repair like this could possibly easily be half what the bike is actually worth if it had to be sold. I rode it home and all works fine so once I repair this I'm real certain I can avoid having it happen again.
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1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

Saltcreek · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:46 am Post subject: Re: fuses

merlin geikie · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: Meltdown

I have heard of the ties being too tight and wires being torturously routed and stretched.

So if a wire that is fused, grounds somewhere on the frame, it ll pull juice through the fuse. The fuse is meant to heat up to red hot first and bust, thereby saving the harness from meltdown.

Maybe not all wires are fused. Maybe the wire was getting a bit of grounding, busted a fuse or two, and the PO put in a higher rating fuse.

That would have fixed it for a while as long as the grounding remained small. Then comes the long trip, or a bit of wrenchin in that area, moved the bare part to ground better and whammo.

Crikey, could have been way worse. Good you were onto it and whipped the tank off. Reckon your fix sounds good.

All the very best,
safe rides
merlin Wink

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: fuses

Yup!
Be sweet if a fuse was built in, but man o man that harness is a rat's nest now!
_________________
1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Fuses

Oh yeah!

Saltcreek is so very correct!

I guess I am not certain then WHY the fuse did nto just kick out?

Will check all those and see if I can come up with answer.
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1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

Flying Duck · Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:55 pm Post subject:

No need to buy the intermediate wiring harness. Just make one yourself. That's what I did for my K75. No rocket surgery involved.

Also use a 7.5A fuse in Fuse 1 so it will pop more quickly if (Dog forbid) you should have problems again. That's what the 2 valve Ks had and should be adequate for Fuse 1. Worst case you'll pop a fuse instead of having another meltdown. If a 7.5 pops under a normal load then try a 10. You're much better off with a fuse that's too small than one that's too big.
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93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject: rolling your own

Yes indeedy!

That is exactly what I was going to do Drake!

Went to Radio Shack & was looking at all the nice colored wiring & plugs & such. I ALMOST did that!! Started to add up buying it all and I was near $45.00, then I chickened out as the harness is sooooooo melted I cannot tell where the one stragler wire with the blue rectangular single pole plug goes too. Each gauge has 4 wires to it on the harness, maybe it was the power for the lights?

I bought a used one from BBY for $100. Sorry Drake, I see NOW you had one for $70.
*%&$(^$!(^($*^

Oh well, I'll take some pictures of the temp guage too. I think it's toast as the wires are melted right up to the back of it!
Anyone know if a VDO is an easy swap? Pics would help if ya got em.

I'm hoping I get it all back together this coming weekend.
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1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge

Flying Duck · Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject:

Yes, the VDO swap is very easy. I've got VDO fuel and temp guages on my K11LT and K75. The temp gauge is a couple of degrees off (like 7 or 8 ) but not enough to really matter. The fuel gauge is nice because you can calibrate it to where you want empty to be.

If you want to do your own wiring harness you can just use blade connectors or buy 4 wire connectors form Jim Davis.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

jpberens1994K1100RS · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: All fixed!

Well the BIG box with a COMPLETE upper wiring harness and the engine harness arrived from a 95 LT / w ABS yesterday. More than I expected!
More surgery to seperate out what I wanted / needed. The old wiring on my bike, brown ground wire, was melted ALL THE WAY to the back of the temp guage!!! Mad

This could have been very very bad for me, I think I got lucky.
Anyways, I stripped/ spliced and CAREFULLY connected it all, then hot tested it. All good. Then spent a few yours bomb proofing it all with heat shrink tubing and being super careful with the routing.
I worked on it till after midnight, but it's all done and even the temp guage works again perfectly.
Sweet ride to work today it was indeedy!

So many thanks to EVERYONE here as I knew if I got stumped I could get help very quickly. Oh and the no brake light was ablown fuse #1 replaced with same amp fuse, all good.

Drake, if you read this, I need one LED for my temp gauge please. U know I'm good for it. I somehow twisted the little bugger loose in the socket and it does not work now.
Ride safe everyone and long may our moto bricks fly.
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1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge