K11 Owners Group

Off the grid · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: Missing/stuttering

Missing in later gears, 4+5th.

Wondering if it has anything to do with the weather here.

It's 20-30c and my temp gauge never gets above half even when idling. I know the bike likes to be run hit and lean, so that where my train of thought was going.

Would placing black duct tape over the grill intake make the bike run a bit hotter? Kind of like cars and trucks do?

For the record, other things it could possibly be and when I changed them:

Clutch/splines 15k ago
fuel filter 15k ago
plugs 10k ago
(used) wires 10k ago
TBS, O2 sensor, coolant checked and changed 3k ago.

Any advice appreciated, and please don't say its something expensive. Shocked

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Das Boot · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:18 am Post subject:

Grid,

I d try the cheapest things first. 10k to me is the life of plugs for a bike, the car I double that but, I would start there. I know a lot of people use different brands of plugs, I never had any luck with anything in a BMW besides BOSCH or BERU spark plugs. I would torque the spark plugs to 20ft lbs and make certain the caps are tight.
Then try the old trick of running the machine in a dark garage, look for any arcing or sparking down at the wires. Poor mans method but it works for this case I think.
The other thing is gas, if you havent been riding much it could be old gas, the stuff in the winter in the North East area is that oxygenated nonsense that runs like do-do anyway. Look into the tank and make sure there isnt any water it. Fuel filters can get clogged even at 10k miles.

Best of Luck,
_________________
Dom

Off the grid · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:47 am Post subject:

Dom,

Thanks a ton, was leaning towards electrical myself.

As far as fuel, I ride daily unless it is raining or snowing.

*Ninja edit

If it was a fuel filter, wouldn't it be missing in all gears and not the top end?
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Bane of your existence since July 2006
2007 Triumph Tiger ABS. "Sabertooth"
2009 Husqvarna TE610. "The dirty Italian mistress"

Das Boot · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:25 am Post subject:

Grid,

I think its plugs or wires. Although the fuel filter is always a good cheap fix too. My thinking for the fuel filter is that I had an old boxer with the classic crap red coated lining in the tank. The lining would flake off, and clog the equally crappy Bing Carbs. I added inline fuel filters along with modified fuel filters on the inside stems of the petcocks. Anyway, as the filters would get clogged up it always showed signs in top gear top RPM first. I think were the only two guys up this late on Friday night reading K11 stuff, I feel bad for these other poor saps Laughing

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Dom

Phil Marvin · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:12 am Post subject:

Hi, Dave,
Your discussion brings back memories of my '96 K1100LT, the one which I sold at 122k miles and is still running well at something past 135k. It would miss and stutter, mostly in 5th but sometimes in 4th, especially when I was on the far side of 80mph with wide open throttle like, for instance, passing a car. I changed plugs and fuel filter, checked valve clearances, changed the air filter, etc. Nothing worked. I finally took it into the shop. The diagnosis was a bad throttle positioning sensor. First, the mechanic tried resetting mine. That didn't work. They had a new one in stock, so he put it in and set it. That was the last of the stumbling. It ran great. I don't know if that's your bike's problem, but it's something to think about. Good Luck!
Ride Safe,
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Phil Marvin in El Paso, TX
'94 K75A/3
'95 K75RTP

Off the grid · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:16 am Post subject:

<cough>

Anyway......noob question alert....what and where is the throttle positioning sensor?
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Bane of your existence since July 2006
2007 Triumph Tiger ABS. "Sabertooth"
2009 Husqvarna TE610. "The dirty Italian mistress"

WVMSFKRS · Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject:

That's the same thing my 96 is doing. It totally quit, the shop cleaned the throttle positioning sensor. Now it runs but starts missing, just a little. Any way to check this sensor at home?

Mike
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'09 K1200LT
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'04 URAL *SOLD*

Phil Marvin · Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject:

Hi, All,
The K11 throttle positioning sensor is a small black box on top of and at the rear, left side of the engine. It can (maybe) be reset. Mick McKinnon has the specs and can tell you what you need to do. You need a meter which will read millivolts, I think.
Ride Safe,
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Ride Safe,
Phil Marvin in El Paso, TX
'94 K75A/3
'95 K75RTP

andyc · Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject:

The setting procedure for the TPS is in the very first sticky in the tech section. Keep in mind that the TPS is VERY sensitive, the voltage will change some as the screws are tightened down. A small change in voltage will make a large change in how the engine runs.

Andy

bmwmick · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject:

Off the grid · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject:

Mick thanks for the suggestions but I can pretty much rule out the thermostat as I just got it replaced and a full coolant flush.

Plus I put some black duct tape over 3/4 of the intake and shes running a bit warmer now. My concern was that the super cool air and the bike running cool might be causing the stuttering somehow.
_________________
Bane of your existence since July 2006
2007 Triumph Tiger ABS. "Sabertooth"
2009 Husqvarna TE610. "The dirty Italian mistress"

bmwmick · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject:

Off the grid · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject:

Yeah 5 mins, tops.
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Bane of your existence since July 2006
2007 Triumph Tiger ABS. "Sabertooth"
2009 Husqvarna TE610. "The dirty Italian mistress"

Off the grid · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject:

@Dom

10k seems awfully fast for plugs....they always were to me a "install and forget" item...and I do tuneups on my cars every 30-40k or so.

Picked up a set of NGKs....16$ bucks for 4. Sure beats 40$ for the BMW set.

Weather is just the suck here, so will have to wait and see.

Next stop....fuel filter.

Thanks to those who replied.

-D
_________________
Bane of your existence since July 2006
2007 Triumph Tiger ABS. "Sabertooth"
2009 Husqvarna TE610. "The dirty Italian mistress"

Das Boot · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject:

Grid,

10k is a little excessive, but I still like to turn wrenches on my bikes for whatever dumb reason and there isnt much to tinker with. Anyway, I would still go for the Bosch plugs and a Mahle filter which is the same as the OEM item. For the added reason if the bike isnt running right, I tend to go back to the stock configuration, a part number could have always been cross referenced in error or updated. Besides aren't you rolling in all that money since you stopped smoking :>) BTW I still laugh by ass off everytime I see your advantar.

Best of Luck,
_________________
Dom

Off the grid · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject:

Having no garage any "tinkering" in the winter is painful, to say the least.

But to recap I found out the problem. The plugs were loose in the block.

I swapped em out for a set of NGKs for the time being, but will go back to the Bosch asap....I like the dual-firing of the Bosch.

I also found this handy guide for spitfire plugs in my searches:

http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-motorcycles/BMW-Splitfire-sparkplugs.htm

Anyone have any experience with them?

RAL88 · Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject:

Everything that I have read about the split fire, bosch duals, quads and any plug that has more than one grounding point is that they still only produce one spark. The electricity will flow to the path of least resistance at the moment of the spark and that is only one path. The more grounding contacts that you have only increases the life of the plug because you are spreading the damage done by the spark to more than one point. If this is incorrect please educate me.

Rich
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Rich

"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R

Jimmyd · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:28 am Post subject:

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:59 am Post subject:

I haven't adjusted/checked my tps for a while yet, but I don't seem to remember it having anything to do with the 3-pin diagnostic connector under the seat.

Yes you have to measure the tps voltage with the 4-pin plug connected to the tps. slide the rubber boot off of the connector and use some small aligator clips to reach in from the back side of the plug. It is kind of a PIA to do this, but it can be done.

Yes, the diagostic plug(3-pin that is under the seat on the left side) has all base brown wires with diff color stripes.
Brown/Blue stripe-- goes to the abs controller.
Brown/Black stripe--goes 2 places, 1 to the hi temp lamp on inst cluster, 2 to the motronic unit.
Brown/Green stripe--goes to the motronic unit.

The 4-pin TPS connector should have the following colors:
White/Grey stripe
Green/Yellow stripe
White/Red stripe
Brown/Grey stripe
All of these wires go to the motronic control unit.

One of the bad things with most wiring diagrams, they may give you the correct colors but they most often don't say which pin # they are landed in.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
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1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

Jimmyd · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: TPS

I was just going off the link to the Motronic diagnostics that have been posted in my threads.
The first time I went to try a diagnosis I noticed that the three pin diagnostics connector was as stated, but that Pin #2 did not have the color wiring as described.
If Brown/Blue wires have nothing to due with the TPS then I guess I have nothing to worry about.

I'll try to see if I can get inside the TPS connector to test. Does it make sense to you that there would be a constant 12 volts at the connector when unconnected from the TPS.
Seems correct to me. Does anyone have the time to test a 93-96 K 1100 (RS or LT) TPS connector. If you use a digital volt meter to test between pins 1/4 on the connector what do you see for voltage with the bike on but not started?