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I'm a noob! Hello all! (K1100RS 1993, K100RT 1986)
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:22 pm    Post subject: I'm a noob! Hello all! (K1100RS 1993, K100RT 1986) Reply with quote

Hi Folks!

I'm from Renfrewshire, Scotland, and I have a couple of bikes, including a 1995 (manufactured in 93) K1100RS (which is making me cry, lol!) and a 1986 K100RT, both of which I have had a lot of good times on (also a Suzuki GSF 650).

I've already seen some interesting stuff here, and I hope to get into things more, and I must be honest, it would be great to get some help on the bike (K1100RS).

I am not really used to forums like this, so please bear with me!
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9790
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WelKome!

What are your K1100 issues?
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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AtLarge



Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: IA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Davey. Post up a picture when you can. I too have a K1100RS and would like to see how yours has fared over the years.
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1973 Honda CL70-K3, 1975 Kawasaki 350 F9-C, 1983 Kawasaki KZ750-K1, 1994 BMW K1100RS, 2008 Suzuki GSX1300-BKK8 #1120
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Duck,

Thanks! Good to be here! Well, my Dad and I, (ok mostly my dad) have been wrestling with the K1100RS not starting. We think it's the motronic unit and have had a couple exchanged with little success (although once it worked, briefly).

The issue is- battery in, motronic in, key turned in ignition, but no swoosh from the petrol/gas pump in the tank and no life in fuel gauge and brake lights don't work. (probably more too, if previous troubles with previous motronics are anything to go by.) Press start button and starter fires up turning engine, but no life other than that - it doesn't start. Side stand up. Clutch in. (ps, starter works with kill switch turned)

My dad has a big list of checks he's done which I might go into later.

To be honest, we're kinda getting to the end of our tether with it and are thinking on giving it up, as we've been trying to get to the bottom of this for about a year now. It all started a year ago when I tried putting in a new battery - the electrode posts were a different configuration so I had to move the cables a bit, then the next day the bike stopped of it's own accord on the motorway/freeway. I managed to nurse it to work, and thereafter it started occasionally for a brief spell then just refused completely. Confused

One time when we put in a new (second hand) motronic unit, it worked fine with no issues, but that was November, then come the spring when we started getting it ready for use again, it was dead, and has remained so these past months despite my dad's (and my) best efforts at trying to get to the bottom of it.

It's almost midnight now so I'll get back to this later!

Thanks for any help you might give! Very Happy
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Large,

I certainly could do that, though i don't have many pics of the K1100RS- it used to be my dad's till he felt it was a bit too heavy for him. I could take a pic of it as it is just now, though it's in bits and covered with our sweat, blood and tears, lol! Crying or Very sad it's in not bad condition for it's age, though is nothing like show room condition. God willing though, sometime soon it'll be back on the road and I'll upload a pic. I live in faith of that.... Laughing I'll upload a photo of my k100 when i can work out how... Rolling Eyes [/img]
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9790
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the fuel pump whir for a couple of seconds when you turn the key on? (To pre-pressurize the fuel system.) It should if the kill switch is pointed straight up on a 94+.

If the brake lights aren't working then your kill switch may be corroded or not making good contact as the brake light power is controlled by the kill switch.

You can take the right combo switch off and take the kill switch apart to inspect/clean it. I'd advise doing this on the bench, not the bike, as there are tiny springs to get lost if you're not careful.


_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Duck,

It's a Jan 95 registered bike, but manufactured in 93 apparently.

At the moment, and for most of our troubles, the fuel pump does nothing at any point. When the bike was working, the pump ran all the time the switch was turned in the ignition. I think we got a slightly different motronic at one point and it only ran as you described- for a couple of seconds.

That's interesting you've mentioned the start/ kill switch. I've been suspicious of that for a while. Both my Dad and i have had it apart to check it out, so we can check that out again. I have a feeling my Dad will say that it's fine in the areas you mentioned.

So we're just checking for the tabs and springs to be in the right places?
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9790
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the last seven digits of the VIN?
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flying Duck wrote:
What are the last seven digits of the VIN?


Reading the number off the side of the frame, it has printed "Typ BMW 100 1093cm3" then it has stamped "0198733". I'd add the photo of it but don't know how, lol. I've checked the official UK registration certificate for the bike, and that is indeed the VIN.

I'm just coming to have a bite of lunch then try out your starter button check.

May i ask again, are we mainly just checking for the tabs and springs to be in correct places, along with cleaning if required? I must say I'm not 100% sure from picture where tabs are meant to go- there are 4 tabs- 3 tabs with punched blips on them and one tab without, that has an arrow to one of the three green locations... ach maybe it'll be clear when i take it apart. Thanks again!
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry- posted in error
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9790
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on the VIN it was built in 11/93 which means it's a late model (94 and on model year.)

The purpose of taking the kill switch apart is to make sure the contacts are not corroded. When it is pointed straight up at the right combo switch connector you should have continuity between the green and green/yellow wires to get power to the Motronic relay and fuel pump relay.

It could be an issue with the side stand switch. If you follow the wiring from the side stand switch it will go to two wire connector under the right side cover. You can unplug that and simply short the two terminals of the connector from the main wiring harness to eliminate that as a cause.

You can also test the fuel pump by jumping 12V to it. The larger diameter terminal on the fuel pump is ground and the smaller diameter terminal is 12V. You can do this in the tank but if you do be careful not to create any sparks in the gas tank - for obvious reasons.

If the fuel pump whirs when you put power to it then it is working.

Another possible culprit is the four wire connector for the clump of wires coming out of the fuel tank. It is not unheard of for that to go bad.It's located on the right hand side and has four wires: brown, yellow, white and green/white.

Have you checked all of the fuses?
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Duck, thanks again.
(Edited)
Thanks for the info on the VIN- that may come in useful.

The contacts in the kill switch look fine. All nice and clean. We shorted them when it was apart and got same result. Back together again and same result (starter turns when pressed, but no noise from fuel pump, bike doesn't start, starter turns when when kill switch to off left and right- no difference made by position puff kill switch). My Dad says previously, there was power to the relays, but just no ground to them to make things work. Ground comes from motronic unit... if you put in a false ground to relay, fuel pump works.

Jumping the side stand switch makes no difference.

We've already tested the fuel pump- it's fine, runs smoothly when 12V applied from battery or false ground to relay applied.

As for the four wire connector from the fuel tank, aye, done all that too- I've already removed the (probably innocent) connector and put block connector in place to make absolutely sure.

All fuses checked, they're innocent as well.

My Dad (who has done more than me on it) is strongly suggesting it's the moronic unit, sorry motronic unit that is the problem. Even though it's yet another (second hand) replacement unit.
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9790
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the brake light still isn't working? I assume you've tested that the bulb is good, right?

When the key is turned on do you have 12V at green wire of the right combo switch connector? If not then it might be a flaky ignition switch.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Duck,
Correct, still no brake light. Just checked bulb and although it's slightly darkened it works fine on a battery with wire.

I'm not certain about green wires at ignition/ right combo switch connector (we left the switch combo connected to the bike with a box below to catch parts), but when we had the switch off for inspection earlier today, i checked the contacts where the moving switch sits and we got 12.7 volts at the top outer 2 (where the ring with the tabs makes contact when in central position, and we got 11.5 volts between the two inner starter button prongs. Dad's just checking lights, so all lights work except brake lights- indicators are fine, horn, dipped and full beam, flasher, parking light all ok, just no brake light.

When the switch was apart, i jumped the top outer 2 contacts where the ring sits, still no whirr/ noise from fuel pump. Then in addition jumped the starter prongs, still the same- starter motor turns, no life from bike or fuel pump.

Please continue to give hints/ ask for clarification/ etc.
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9790
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the 2 wire connector for the rear brake switch do you have 12V at the green/black wire when the kill switch is straight up and bike turned on? (The other wire is gray/green.)
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah. Well, we have just found what i think is the 2 wire connector for the rear brake switch. The switch side looks like the typical brake connector and has code bmw 1 369 747 written on one side and 2 amp 926 848 on it.

The wiring loom side of connector gives zero volts at the connector with the green/ black wire and the green/ grey wire. Hoping the jigsaw is coming together at last...?

If the kill switch has power and it powers brake lights, why doesn't the brake switch have power? Thanks again!
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9790
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With key on and kill switch straight up the green/yellow wire at the right combo switch connector should have 12V. That's what powers the Motronic relay, fuel pump relay and brake switches. If the brake switch isn't getting power then the Motronic and fuel pump relays probably aren't either.

How many miles on the bike?
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

47,000 miles on bike.

Does the bike not need to be moving for the brake lighting circuit to become effective? For the warning lights for the brakes to turn off, both brakes need to be applied and bike needs to be moving.

My Dad was saying that there is power to the relays but no earth. Sounds like I'll have to pull the tank off to get at this green/ yellow wire. Or disassemble the switch further?
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9790
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The brake light should work when the bike is stopped. On a properly working bike the BMU light can go from solid to flashing if you hit both brakes right after you start it. It remains flashing until moving because the ABS system needs the wheels to be moving to test the wheel sensors.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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bikerdavy



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 24
Location: Renfrewshire, Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, thanks for that.

My Dad devoted a lot of time to studying the relays, because 12V is getting to terminal 86 of them, but cannot get to terminal 87 to complete the high powered circuit until terminal 85 on the low powered circuit received a groundseemingly from the moronic unit, but is not getting it. But when he induces false earth to terminal 85, relay works, fuel pumps work and injectors get power, but more is needed because motronic unit needs more than false earth. That's how we understand it.

So what do you reckon is the way forward from here? To get it working?

You've been a great deal of help here, Duck. I'm wondering, might this be appropriate to take to the main forum for tech questions, as we're getting into quite a bit of detail for an introductory thread...?
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