K11 Owners Group Forum Index K11 Owners Group
K11 Owners Group
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Cutting out - electrical of fuel related

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    K11 Owners Group Forum Index -> Tech
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 172
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Cutting out - electrical of fuel related Reply with quote

My '98 K1100lt is starting to get to me now. 3 days before I am due to leave for Europe, the bike starts playing up.

What happens is the bike will start in the morning with no problem but as soon as I shut off the cold start the engine it dies instantly. It will restart with no problem and will run and accelerate as it has always done but even when warm the running around 40mph 'is not quite right'. A bit lumpy, nothing serious but you can feel it..

If you move the cold start lever a fraction it runs as if there was no problem, it is as if the throttle closes off completely including the idle setting

Today it started to gt a lot worse, so suspecting a low tension side problem I stripped and cleaned the wires connected to the coils but there was no difference.

Then noticed that the brake/rear lamp warning light had gone out although I had not touched the brakes to shut it off. This reminded me a couple of years ago the wires around the headstock were so tight the same light refused to come on and had actually snapped. eventually today it did start with the warning light on and extinguished whenever I operated both brakes.

Finally before I gave up for the day, I started it one more time, it sounded a bit rough and noticed that if the handlebars were facing forward or turned to the right it was almost like normal. Turn them to the right and the motor stopped instantly.

I am not that worried about the trip 'cos I will use the K75s and face the problem and a few suggestions when i get back
_________________
1986 K75S Professionally resprayed in Nightfire Metallic Red (non BMW colour) and refurbished wheels.

1986 K75c. Good mechanical order. Now resprayed BMW Avus Black (unlined) and looking good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9471
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like it might be the ignition switch wiring.
_________________
93 K11LT
94 K11RS- "Kato"
86-97 K75F (K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/ paralever, high perf. cams,TURBO!
91 K1
86 custom K100
and a few more classic Ks
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 172
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Ign Switch wires Reply with quote

Flying Duck wrote:
Sounds like it might be the ignition switch wiring.


That makes sense to me as the as the cables join the same part of the loom which is already under tension around the headstock. Well it can wait until I get back, by which time I will have come to some sort of decision what to do with it.
(A can of fuel and a match seem like a good idea at present!)
_________________
1986 K75S Professionally resprayed in Nightfire Metallic Red (non BMW colour) and refurbished wheels.

1986 K75c. Good mechanical order. Now resprayed BMW Avus Black (unlined) and looking good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9471
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just remember to over-insure prior to lighting the match.
_________________
93 K11LT
94 K11RS- "Kato"
86-97 K75F (K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/ paralever, high perf. cams,TURBO!
91 K1
86 custom K100
and a few more classic Ks
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scott_Anderson
Site Admin


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2935
Location: Central Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flying Duck wrote:
Just remember to over-insure prior to lighting the match.


And remove your comments of intention........
_________________
Ride safe.


1997 K1100LT 0302488
1995 K1100LT 0302044
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Al.
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 329
Location: West of Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read mine sounds same
http://k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13070
_________________
1994 K1100 LTSE + Blackbird
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 172
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Cutting out Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestion, however it doesn't seem to be quite like yours. The bike starts, idles and runs perfectly well, so long as the front wheel is pointing towards the right, even slightly. It is when the handlebars are turned to the left past the 12 o'clock position is when the engine cuts out.

The possible suggestions that have been given to me are all electrical related with the ignition switch cable to the main loom, or one of the cables to the main multipin contact pad that is screwed to the underside of the instrument being the main suspects.

These are followed by excess tension to the cut off switch causing a wire to break, or a problem relating to the power supply to the fuel pump. Time will tell when I start to strip it on Monday.
_________________
1986 K75S Professionally resprayed in Nightfire Metallic Red (non BMW colour) and refurbished wheels.

1986 K75c. Good mechanical order. Now resprayed BMW Avus Black (unlined) and looking good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Al.
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 329
Location: West of Ireland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether left or right it could still be same problem.
I confirmed it by moving the cable from the ignition while engine running.
Suggest this before dismantling anything.

Give each cable a good "wriggle"and see which one causes problem.

Replacing was easy once I spotted red paint on screw head..
Its a very fine slot in the head and you need to scape away all the paint to avoid
damaging slot. I cannot imagine the trouble if you do. It's a very awkward place to access.

Not sure if red paint is to stop screw vibrating out or so that yoy can see where it is Very Happy

Be interested to hear result
_________________
1994 K1100 LTSE + Blackbird
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 172
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Teeth well gritted Reply with quote

I am starting tomorrow and will be very methodical in the investigation. It will be done slowly and carefully.

One thing I will be looking closely at is the possibility of a faulty cut out switch which apparently isn't unknown.
_________________
1986 K75S Professionally resprayed in Nightfire Metallic Red (non BMW colour) and refurbished wheels.

1986 K75c. Good mechanical order. Now resprayed BMW Avus Black (unlined) and looking good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 172
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject: Eureka Moment! (but why?) Reply with quote

I started to look for any fault and to stripped the handlebar shroud off and the 1st thing I discovered was that an earth (ground) wire to the hazard light switch had broken.

I then cut away all the cable ties I could find to slacken off the wires and get a bit of movement and lessen the strain.

After this I noticed that the throttle cable was badly routed and re-aligned that to make it easier and had to adjust it to take up quite a bit of slack that wasn't there before.

I checked every terminal I could find pulled them apart and refitted them together with squirt of WD40. I re-soldered the broken wire to the switch terminal.

Not seeing anything else obvious, I refitted all the bits apart from the fairing sections thinking that I would probably have to take it to an engineer to check things over. I even reconnected the tank pipes and power lead.

Then more in desperation I turned the ignition on pressed the button and the bike started. Swinging the bars from left to right made no difference, the motor didn't hesitate or even hint that it was going to cut out. Everything was perfect!

I can only think that the throttle cable being badly routed had something to do with it because the broken wire is only for the hazard lights and nothing else. Sorting both of these out has cured the problem.

Was it mechanical due to the throttle cable, or was it electrical due to the broken wire - who knows?
_________________
1986 K75S Professionally resprayed in Nightfire Metallic Red (non BMW colour) and refurbished wheels.

1986 K75c. Good mechanical order. Now resprayed BMW Avus Black (unlined) and looking good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 172
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject: Problem solve - Not Reply with quote

After my triumphant post a few days ago where I seemed to have sorted out the engine at idle speed cutting out the problem has returned - only worse. The position of the handlebars and twisted throttle cable seems to have been a bit of a blind route

When cold, it starts normally and will run at idle speed where the pick up is perfect and opening and shutting the throttle quickly makes no difference. Where the problem now seems to lie is when it gets hot the motor will not run at idle speed at all.

I re-created this today by starting with a cold engine and letting it run at slightly more than 1200rpm until the temp gauge started to move. I continued to let it run until the motor began to get really hot and the fan cut in. I then raised the revs a bit then let them drop back to 1000rpm where it cut out. This happened time and time again.

Several more attempts were made with the same result. I am now thinking that the Hall Sensor may be the problem.....It is definitely a heat related issue. The same symptoms happened when took it out for a 10 mile ride.

I replaced the sensor on my K75 last year after it failed although under slightly different circumstances where it just died 4 mins after starting and would not fire at all even though the engine was not that hot at the time.

Could this problem have been started last year the bike got incredibly hot in southern Europe (90 degrees plus) after the thermostat failed and the fuel pump started to whine very loudly. The motor was stopped and allowed to cool where the running was almost normal but the needle in the gauge was still just below the point where the fan kicked it

The bike is a 1998 model with only 38000+ miles
_________________
1986 K75S Professionally resprayed in Nightfire Metallic Red (non BMW colour) and refurbished wheels.

1986 K75c. Good mechanical order. Now resprayed BMW Avus Black (unlined) and looking good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl


Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 9471
Location: Bumf***, WA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heat related cutouts as you describe are often due to a failing HES.

One test you can do is to take the cover off of the HES, start the bike and then warm up the HES with a hair dryer or heat gun to see if you can induce a cutout..

Another to try is after it heats up and quits pour some cold water over the HES cover plate to see if that makes the bike run again.
_________________
93 K11LT
94 K11RS- "Kato"
86-97 K75F (K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/ paralever, high perf. cams,TURBO!
91 K1
86 custom K100
and a few more classic Ks
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 172
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: HES Reply with quote

Since posting this I am borrowing a HES from a friend which came off a K100. (They are the same) so this may be the way to go.

A good used one with a 6 month guarantee from Motorworks in UK can be had for £45 which if it is the problem, a relatively cheap fix and easy to fit as well.
_________________
1986 K75S Professionally resprayed in Nightfire Metallic Red (non BMW colour) and refurbished wheels.

1986 K75c. Good mechanical order. Now resprayed BMW Avus Black (unlined) and looking good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    K11 Owners Group Forum Index -> Tech All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group