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U-joint Phasing and Carbon Build up

 
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Dixie



Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 19
Location: CZ---Bohemia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:25 am    Post subject: U-joint Phasing and Carbon Build up Reply with quote

Hi guys,
I just wanted to ask for some confirmation on some info before I get stuck in to my spline lube.

I'm working on my K1100RS '92 ABS, greasing the splines. I've seen a lot written about properly phasing the drive shaft when putting everything back together. While I'm not a mechanic, I don't really have too much a problem with doing stuff by myself - but I'm still learning as I go along.
The thing is, every where I look they explain WHY you should phase the drive shaft, but not actually HOW. As far as I understand its just making sure that the joints are perpendicularly orientated to each other at opposite ends, is that right?

I guess that there is just so much scaremongering online about the topic, I'm just expecting there to be more to it than just that.

So is there a link or someone who can please tell me - phase it by doing X, Y, Z. Before I take it apart, and regret not asking earlier?

Also, when I took the exhaust headers off, I had a good look up the exhaust side of the engine and noticed a fair bit of carbon build-up. Valve stems look clean, but the walls of the headers leading to the exhaust have a fair amount of crud on them.
It was really tempting to try and 'clean' up, while I was there - but in the end I managed to resist.

What would you guys do? Let sleeping dogs lie, or go Mr.Clean?

(as a note, most probably the problem for why there is such a terrible build up is that the muppet who owned the bike before me played with the 'special-dont-ever-touch-this-not-ever' screws on the throttle body. Which was the first thing that I repaired when I got the bike - and will be rechecking after the spline job).

Sorry for the long post, hope you're all enjoying the last of the riding season.

Ride Safe,

Jason
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Scott_Anderson
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Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 3117
Location: Central Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read this:
http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6117

It may not be exactly what you may be looking for, but it is a very good write up to read, the very last post give some alignment instructions as quoted from Mr Glaves.

If you are very careful when you split the final drive from the swing arm, you should be able to mark the parts for alignment.
If not, you can assemble the shaft on the bench and mark it there before assembly.

As far as the carbon goes, let it go, assemble the bike and just "ride it like you stole it"...... the RPM sweet spot for these bikes is between between 4500-5000. Shouldn't have any carbon build up on the valves at those rev's.
I babied my '97 too much when I got it at 7K miles and ended up burning 2 valves by 25K miles 3 yrs later.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
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Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 367
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Drive Shaft Reply with quote

Possibly the easiest way to do it is to carefully mark the drive shaft with something like a permanent marker pen before you remove it and also on a static part of the bike. If you do it this way, make sure you do not move the engine whilst the shaft is removed.
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1994 R1100RS
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N41EF
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 406
Location: Aiken, SC

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you lubing the clutch too or just the drive shaft? As John found out, if there is ANY loose or slop in the joints, it's time to get them done when it's out.

I concur on the italian tune up method of getting carbon out.
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1993 K1100LT. Nissan Ice Blue.(Gone)
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Grunter
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Joined: 30 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott_Anderson wrote:


As far as the carbon goes, let it go, assemble the bike and just "ride it like you stole it"...... the RPM sweet spot for these bikes is between between 4500-5000. Shouldn't have any carbon build up on the valves at those rev's.
I babied my '97 too much when I got it at 7K miles and ended up burning 2 valves by 25K miles 3 yrs later.


I have found my K1100LT runs the sweetest around that RPM range too. This equates to between 65-75mph. Around 60 it feels a bit on the harsh side which gets smoother as the speed rises. At 70 it is almost as smooth as my K75 at all speeds. Interestingly on a Motorway or Continental Autobahn at those speeds my fuel consumption is about the best I can get and that can be as much as 60-63 miles per (UK) gallon. In theory not far off 300 miles per tankful.
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Dixie



Joined: 03 Feb 2017
Posts: 19
Location: CZ---Bohemia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Scott, thats exactly what I needed Very Happy I even remember reading the thread, but I guess I missed it how its at the end and I had about a million windows open on the topic.

I've also noticed the 'happy spot' in the rev range. I remember when I was test riding the bike and thats pretty much why I bought it Very Happy

I just hope that I havent bitten off more than I can chew with lubing the clutch splines...I guess we'll find out if I come back for more help on putting it all back together.

ride safe.
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Grunter
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Joined: 30 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Spline Lube Reply with quote

Whilst it cannot hurt lubricating everything that moves, in the BMW workshop CD Rom there is no mention of lubricating the drive shaft and is not included in the handbook either. Likewise the R1100/R1150/R1200 models!

For those who may drive a car with rear wheel drive, when was the last time you greased the drive shaft on those either - never I bet, except when they were new and they are open to more crud off the road than the one in the K1100.
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Scott_Anderson
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the paralever drive shaft the only splines that require lubrication are the intermediate splines where the 2 pieces of drive shaft connect, that is the point of movement as the paralever moves up/down. The other u-joint splines may be lubricated for ease of assembly/disassembly, but not required .
You will notice that the transmission output shaft and the final drive input shaft have "C" clip keeper rings that keep the u-joints snapped in place so they don't move under normal operations.

Grunter, if you look at your car drive shaft, the splined connections are either lubricated with the transmission fluid at the front end or with the differential lube at the rear end, hence you never have to remove them for lubrication. The older drive shafts did have grease points for the U-joints that the K-bikes don't have, and any non-servicable U-joint that I ever replaced on a car/truck was replaced with one that could be greased.
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Ride safe.



1995 K1100LT 0302044
1997 R1100RT ZC62149
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
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wuckfitracing



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grease nipples on my car propshaft UJs, greased every year, however its a TVR and I have a four post lift in my garage, Im also an engineer with an obsessive nature. Laughing
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Grunter
Flying Brick Rider


Joined: 30 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott_Anderson wrote:
On the paralever drive shaft the only splines that require lubrication are the intermediate splines where the 2 pieces of drive shaft connect, that is the point of movement as the paralever moves up/down. The other u-joint splines may be lubricated for ease of assembly/disassembly, but not required .
You will notice that the transmission output shaft and the final drive input shaft have "C" clip keeper rings that keep the u-joints snapped in place so they don't move under normal operations.

Grunter, if you look at your car drive shaft, the splined connections are either lubricated with the transmission fluid at the front end or with the differential lube at the rear end, hence you never have to remove them for lubrication. The older drive shafts did have grease points for the U-joints that the K-bikes don't have, and any non-servicable U-joint that I ever replaced on a car/truck was replaced with one that could be greased.


I don't own a car with rear wheel drive but the last one I did which was many years ago was a Ford. I had to replace the drive shaft after the rear universal joints went west and it was a matter of undoing 4 bolts at the axle end dropping that end, then pulling the drive shaft backwards. the drive shaft was bolted to a flange that was connected to the differential so there could be no lubrication from that end. Nor was there any movement from the flange apart from a tine bit of end float and there was no oil seepage either. There was no oil on the splined end (Gearbox) only a small amount of congealed grease, so there was no lubrication other than what was present. There was an oil seal fitted to the rear of the gearbox which prevented any oil leakage onto the splines.

Naturally, when I replaced the old shaft with a new one (which also had sealed universal joints - no grease nipples) I greased the splines but never did so again in the years I kept the vehicle.

But going back to the original question (?) there is no time or mileage interval in the BMW service schedule to dismantle the drive shaft to grease anything! I have rechecked the official BMW workshop CD ROM and can find nothing to the contrary either.
This sort of problem that is suggested only seems to affect the 'GS' twin which by their design has a longer degree of travel and they are known to fail in as little as 50K miles. I also know of a BMW Club member who has clocked up,over 166K miles on a K1100RS and has never had the drive shaft off and it is still running well.
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