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HWYCHEF
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 13 Location: BAY AREA
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: ABS II modulator |
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Hi all. It seems I have not been here in quite a while, but found my way back. Anyway, I have an ABS II feature that I would like to share with you. My bike is a 96' K11RS/SE model. I'm the original owner. It's the last model before the the K12 came out. For several years now, I have had on several occasions the ABS modulator continue to run after I shut off the bike. It is a spinning / pumping sound. No errors or issues before to warn me. The module would run until I disconnected the battery or the charge fell to 0. After several road side "inspections" I found a sharp tap on the body of the modulator would help a seemingly stuck connection get "unstuck." I would have to clear the error code after fixing the issue to reset the ABS lights and all worked again. Have any of you had / seen this before? Is a rebuild / new modulator needed? Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. _________________ 96' K1100RS/SE Blk-Sil Euro ed. |
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Dieselyoda
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 23 Location: Winnipeg, MB
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:05 pm Post subject: You found the problem, why worry? Be Happy!! |
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I've got some R bikes with the ABS II and they have done the same thing.
I used some "liquid electrical tape" and the problems never reoccurred.
You be good, found problem, fix it, ignore it. |
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HWYCHEF
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 13 Location: BAY AREA
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Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:26 pm Post subject: ABS II modulator |
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Dieselyoda, thanks for the info. I will have to look for that "Liquid electric tape!" Glad that it wasn't a user error. _________________ 96' K1100RS/SE Blk-Sil Euro ed. |
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Inge K. Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Apr 2011 Posts: 458 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:34 am Post subject: |
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This is caused by welded contacts at the power relay due to low voltage.
The relay you find at the rear end of the modulator, it's covered by a small lid which is one time use. |
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HWYCHEF
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 13 Location: BAY AREA
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject: Relay |
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Inge, thank you. I am aware of the fuse box. I have more than once replaced a starter fuse when they welded shut due to low voltage. I actually took one apart and "fixed" the contact points and keep it in the trunk as a spare. If I am correct, the ABS fuse is blue, and quite small. I'll check it again. The battery is a new gel type, hooked up to a battery tender. _________________ 96' K1100RS/SE Blk-Sil Euro ed. |
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Dieselyoda
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 23 Location: Winnipeg, MB
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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If I get you right, we are talking about the two big cables under the cover making contact with the relay contacts??
On my R's, the positive cable works it's way towards the relay contact due to vibration and heat. The small cable to the relay rubs against it causing it to stay on.
Is that what we are talking about?
Perhaps take a picture so we are talking the same thing? I would but it's a brutal job to take all the tupperware off and remove the fuel tank just for a picture. |
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Inge K. Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Apr 2011 Posts: 458 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Dieselyoda: We're speaking about two different things, but the result gonna be the same. (ABS pump running with ignition switched off).
HWYCHEF: The small blue relay inside the relay box is for one of the ABS warning lamps, and isn't the power relay.
(A fuse and a relay is two quite different things). |
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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Hallo Inge....
When you say "Pump" do you mean the motor that pulls the two giant springs down allowing the 2 modulator pistons to drop at start up ?? And is that "relay" on the modulator "brain" case ?
IMO this ABS ll is the worst design ever! I have ABS from Bosch, from Lucas Girling, and from Kelsey Hayes in other vehicles and none of them ever gave the problems that this ABS ll from BMW supplier gives!
Seems when I get a 0007 code failure, it's one or both of the pistons not dropping but I find no sensors to tell "brain" that piston operation is OK.. Most likely is that I don't know how the "verdampften Dinge" really functions!! Have you ever disassembled or played with any of these ( ll ) units ??
Best regards and ride safe..../. Ernie in NH _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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HWYCHEF
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 13 Location: BAY AREA
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: ABS Modulator |
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Dieselyoda, I don't believe I have an issue with cables touching a relay / fuse. I feel it's more an internal issue inside the ABS module. When I look at a picture of a used ABS II module, the side with the aluminum shield faces out. Behind it is the black metal housing. When I gave a good tap on the black housing with a punch and hammer, the unit stopping running (ignition off, in neutral). This made me think some kind of "contact points" were stuck. Maybe due to weakening release springs. I don't have linked brakes, so there is no pump or motor assistance. I have not tried to force the ABS to work, so that might be my next test. If it occurs after the hard break / skid, then its a switching issue inside the modulator. I will try to take a few pics, but it will be a chore. _________________ 96' K1100RS/SE Blk-Sil Euro ed. |
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HWYCHEF
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 13 Location: BAY AREA
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject: ABS Modulator |
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Ernie from NH, you had be laughing when I read your post BTW. I don't think I have ever tried to "steam" any part of my bike (verdampften Dinge)!! Love it! _________________ 96' K1100RS/SE Blk-Sil Euro ed. |
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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hallo Chef...
Regarding ABS ll, there is nothing to use but 'swear words' in describing the bike owners experiences, BUT I dont swear in either language so rather say "verdampften" in public than "verdammten" ( pardon please !) At any rate, I have had the units apart ( dangerous by the way because of the wicked strong springs ) and could never find anything visual wrong with non-functioning unit, which is why I think that in all the failing units in the field, IF it is truly mechanical and not electronic, it will be the small seals at the top of the pistons that are to blame despite the fact that EVEN under the microscope at 40x they will look OK ! Hence the swear words ( cerebral at least ) .... Would be good to know others experiences with this design !! In retrospect, MAYBE steaming could help ????
Have fun in the Bay....ride safe...// Ernie in NH _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hallo Chef...
Meant also to say, that I have no experience with the electronic portion of this ABS ll... BUT Mr. Tosi in Japan can now fix any problems with the "brain"... IF problem is mechanical, there is a new resource in I think Idaho, maybe Utah... but you can find it on Ebay !
Good luck with your ABS situation....// Ernie in NH _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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Jim Site Admin
Joined: 17 May 2003 Posts: 3840 Location: WHERETHEFUNNEVERENDS
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Ernie - the search button works better than ABS II...
http://k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12196&highlight=modulemaster _________________ Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repairing
1992 K75RTP 46,000
1992 R100R 24,000 - FOR SALE
"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed." |
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Dieselyoda
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 23 Location: Winnipeg, MB
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:28 am Post subject: |
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You folks are knocking yourself around, a bit silly. The ABS II is made by a couple companies and the "brain-less" is just a bad, electronic engineer's design because his wife wouldn't put out one week and he took it out on us.
For the MOTOR on the ABS II to keep running, it has to have (+) contact with the (+) wire on the relay UNDER the UN-Reusable cover. That should be pretty noticeable and it has been in my experiences in the past. It sounds like a freight train trying to take flight. Good for the ladies, not so good for the bike.
I have two ABS II's in my shop that were replaced by the dealer for my buddies and they were replaced because of the dreaded "7". Turned out, brake light bulbs, both cases.
At this point, I have no idea if we are talking about the same problems I have experienced and I am pretty willing to bet that a couple pictures will create a whole brand new bunch of ideas. I think it's worth the effort to get a few. |
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Inge K. Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Apr 2011 Posts: 458 Location: Norway
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Ernie-NH wrote: | Hallo Inge....
When you say "Pump" do you mean the motor that pulls the two giant springs down allowing the 2 modulator pistons to drop at start up ?? | Yes.
Ernie-NH wrote: | And is that "relay" on the modulator "brain" case ? | The power relay is mounted directly beside the motor, in the same black plastic housing.
Ernie-NH wrote: | Have you ever disassembled or played with any of these ( ll ) units? | Have disassembled a nonfunctional one, years ago. |
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Ernie-NH Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 982 Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Good morning Manitoba !!
You said.."" Turned out, brake light bulbs, both cases. ""
What do you mean by that ?? ( giving a 007 code failure ?? )
Thanks.... // Ernie in NH _________________ AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7 |
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Dieselyoda
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 23 Location: Winnipeg, MB
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Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer to be called a Hoser, or a Hose-Head but "Manitoba"? That's just plain ordinary.
On the "R" bikes, if the brake light bulb goes bad, the ABS lights will flash together and once you get your 3 mph or whatever it is, they will flash alternately. When you check the code, it comes up "7".
If the brain part of this brainless device actually does fail, the turn signal lights will flash very fast when you use them. I don't know why, the turn signals aren't in the circuit.
This is only on the R1100 bikes, RT, RS that I have experienced.
The K bikes are a different animal altogether for the way the ABS sees the rest of the bike. |
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HWYCHEF
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 13 Location: BAY AREA
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:48 am Post subject: ABS II |
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Inge K., you mentioned there is a relay on the modulator itself, with a one use cover. Could you explain where I should look for that? After looking at the unit, I was unable to identify the relay housing. My guess is, that would be the relay that is "sticking." How did you deal with the lid issue once it was removed? Thanks. _________________ 96' K1100RS/SE Blk-Sil Euro ed. |
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Inge K. Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Apr 2011 Posts: 458 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: Re: ABS II |
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HWYCHEF wrote: | Could you explain where I should look for that? | Look at my reply 17 sept.
HWYCHEF wrote: | My guess is, that would be the relay that is "sticking." | Look at my reply 13 sept.
It could be that this link could be helpful. |
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Inge K. Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Apr 2011 Posts: 458 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: ABS II |
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HWYCHEF wrote: | Could you explain where I should look for that? | In the recently posted photo in this thread you can see the relay housing (and lid) just in front of the filler cap on the coolant ekspansion tank. |
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