K11 Owners Group

dweiss · Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 7 Location: N.J. USA

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum, but have been riding my 93 K1100rs for the past 17 years. The bike presently has 100,700 miles and recently blew a coolant hose. It sat for a couple of months before I replaced it, along with doing an oil change. There was quite a bit of thick brown sludge in the water pump and coolant lines. After my first ride the bike was very hard to start and when it did start it blew white smoke for several minutes, but then would run fine. I'm assuming the head gasket is toast, but would be curious if there is something I should look at prior to tearing the bike down and if it's even worth it given the mileage and age of the bike.

Thanks,
David

Inge K. · Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject:

A blown headgasket is a rather seldom issue on a K. More common is leaking pump axle seals.
If the seal on the water side is leaking, and the weep hole is blocked (front, center of oil pan)
you have the possibility of getting water in the oil.

Quite normal that you got some steam out of the ekshaust during warm up period, due to
temperature differences......

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/water-oil-pump-rebuild.shtml
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/water-oil-pump-rebuild2.shtml

Moondog · Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject:

Yea, don't go for the head gasket. I assumed the same thing with my 1996 K1100RS. When I got to the gasket there was nothing wrong with it. The gasket is built like a tank. I doubt it could blow thru. Start looking else where.

Ernie-NH · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:25 am Post subject:

Good morning David...

Welcome to the forum, if you've been riding a "K" for such a time dont know why we haven't heard from you sooner.. be nice if you filled in your 'sig line' so we could know at least where you are located..

I agree with Inge that the water pump seal has most likely been "toast" for some time prior to your parking it. The 'sludge' you described is a giveaway. The job is not difficult, but watch carefully that the tiny oil passage is clear and not blocked or remaining partially blocked with sludge.

The bike 'mileage' of 100k is nothing for a 'K' or even any of the older Airheads or Oilheads..

Have fun. ride safe,.......// Ernie in NH
_________________
AMA,, American Deaf Bikers
Airhead Beemers Club
'11 G650gs
'95 K1100LT
'76 R100/7

Moondog · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:34 pm Post subject:

dweiss · Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 7 Location: N.J. USA

Thanks for the replies, I'm going to order the parts for the water pump today. I'm curious if the hard starting would be a symptom of failed water pump seals since I didn't have the issue prior to replacing the broken hose. Would it be reasonable to assume that the coolant system was so gummed up that there wasn't that much coolant leaking into the combustion chambers, but now with it cleared out, the coolant is causing the hard starting?
_________________
93 K1100RS
04 Ducati M800
67 R69S
67 Triumph TR6R

Moondog · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject:

dweiss · Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 7 Location: N.J. USA

Basically the engine turns over fine, definitely have spark (new plugs, new battery), fuel pump seems to be working fine and the bike has fresh gas (it had been sitting for a couple of months, but I drained the tank). It just takes 20 to 30 seconds for the engine to fire and once it starts it blow white smoke until its warmed up.
_________________
93 K1100RS
04 Ducati M800
67 R69S
67 Triumph TR6R

Rafal · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:17 am Post subject:

Hello!

have you tried to change the fuel filter. Is the bike was sitting, water might accumulate. Check also the condition of all rubber parts in air/fuel/vacuum system.
Last resort: fuel injectors might be clogged - but it is just my free guessing.

Best regards,
_________________
Rafal
K1100RS is a real beast (in Marrakesh Red)
K75S is a real beauty - she has gone Sad

, but not to far Smile

.

Moondog · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:01 am Post subject:

So you her the whine of the fuel pump? If you do, head for the filter. Make sure you are getting spark.

Number 6 · Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject:

Measure compressions and you'll know if your head gasket is OK.
The "old" head gasket fails easily (don't remember when they produced bikes with the new one).
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I am not a number, I am a free man.

94 K1100LT

dweiss · Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 7 Location: N.J. USA

So this is going back awhile. Thanks everyone for your responses. The bike has been sitting since my last post as life got in the way. I finally got around to working on it and it appears the issue was indeed the water pump seal. Having sat for as long as it was, I put a new battery in it and started it up to get the oil warm so I could drain it. The oil was basically the color of cafe latte and was noticeably overfull. Drained the coolant. The coolant was very sludgy and very low. It appears that while the bike sat most of the coolant drained into the crankcase. Took the pump apart and the impeller shaft was significantly worn and pitted. As best as I can tell, depending on the pressure in the system, the oil and the coolant were freely mixing in both directions. Should point out that there was never any fluid coming out of the weep hole and the hole didn't appear to be blocked. New seals, new impeller shaft and all seems good.

I now have a new concern though.

The fuel pump has now developed a continuous whine. It's basically doing the low fuel level whine all the time, even when the tank is full. Does this sound like an impending fuel pump failure? Or is there something else I should be looking for? The fuel filter was changed right before the bike was laid up almost two years ago and the little white plastic valve on fuel vent line just broke although I haven't yet removed it. It's the original fuel pump to the bike (100K miles). The bike is operating fine, just a constant whine out of the fuel tank.

Thoughts on the fuel pump issue?
_________________
93 K1100RS
04 Ducati M800
67 R69S
67 Triumph TR6R

dweiss · Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 7 Location: N.J. USA

As an aside, not quite sure how to add my location to my signature. I'm in NJ right outside of NYC. I've been using the bike as a commuter in and out of Manhattan for the past 15 years. It's seen a pretty hard life.
_________________
93 K1100RS
04 Ducati M800
67 R69S
67 Triumph TR6R

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject:

Do you have the means to check the fuel system pressure?
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

dweiss · Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 7 Location: N.J. USA

Hi Scott,

No, I don't have the ability to check the pressure.

I'm assuming that, under normal operation, the pump is running continuously. I'm basing that on the fact, when the fuel is low, you hear the pump running continuously. Is that correct, or does it actually cycle on and off?

David
_________________
93 K1100RS
04 Ducati M800
67 R69S
67 Triumph TR6R

Jim · Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: fuel pump whine

David - it does not cycle. The pump runs continuously - unused fuel is returned to the tank.

Check the filter - change if needed - and pour a bottle of Cheveron Techron in the tank.

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject:

The reason I asked about checking the fuel pressure....yes the pump runs continuous and the fuel pressure regulator is supposed to maintain the system back pressure for the injectors to work properly.
If the FPR is acting up, it could affect the fuel flow thru the injectors and into the engine.
The older FPR's used a vacuum line to function, and the newer version just has a fixed spring controlled mechanism for maintaining pressure.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

exavid · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:43 pm Post subject:

Techron or Sea Foam, after a bike's been sitting a goodly while or when there's a possibility of a cruddy fuel system either one of those products seem to help clean things out. I give my bikes and Jeep a dose of Sea foam once or twice a year and usually can hear the difference in the idle at least on the Jeep.
I didn't notice you mentioning your spark plugs, what did the old ones look like? When I have any suspicions of a leaking head gasket the plugs are one of the first things I check. When coolant gets into a cylinder it often cleans the spark plug like it was steam cleaned. Because it was. So if you have one or two that look a lot cleaner then the rest it could be a head gasket problem.
_________________
Paul W.
2013 C650GT
1995 K1100LT

Molon Labe

gpzoduibh · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject:

In case its any help in diagnosing problems, the vacuum connection on the older regulator is designed to drop off fuel pressure when you close the throttle ie when you shut off its meant to prevent backfiring on the overrun and improve mileage a little
Good luck getting it sorted and back to its former glory, ihope you wont have any issues with it having sat for so long with an oil water mix in the cases. ...
Regards
Bill
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1995 Grinnall Scorpion III(1990 K100 16v motor)
2010 KTM 450 EXC
Moto Guzzi V50 powered hovercraft !
1989 K100RS (8V) special edition
1974 Yamaha DT360
1972 Sanglas 400 T
1980 Yamaha XS110-Watsonian Palma sidecar
1966 Bridgestone 175 dualtwin
1980 BMW R100RS
1979 Bultaco sherpa T 350
1979 Yamaha DT175MX
1990 Honda XR250R

Inge K. · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: