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gaillarry
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject: Excessive Battery Draw |
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Put a new battery in a week ago, and within days the battery is dead with the key off. Don't think the clock would draw much power but something is draining the battery. Where do I start to look?
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Scott_Anderson
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 3122
Location: Central Iowa, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Well, if the bike has the factory alarm system, that would be a good place to start.
After that, it's time to start measuring current and removing fuses to see what interrupts the current flow.
Slight possibility that you could be loosing some power thru the voltage regulator in the alternator. They can fail sometimes, not often, but I have seen it happen in my cars in the past.
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1995 K1100LT 0302044
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gaillarry
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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I read somewhere If I use a voltmeter on amp setting, with one meter probe on the negative post and the other on the ground cable I can measure the amp draw. Removing one fuse at a time I can see which circuit is drawing the power?
I did note the radio power button was on, but with the key switch off it shouldn't draw anything.
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Fifth Horseman
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 13
Location: Suffolk, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I read somewhere If I use a voltmeter on amp setting, with one meter probe on the negative post and the other on the ground cable I can measure the amp draw. |
Thats correct, without trying to sound condescending, the meter needs to be connected between the battery end of the ground cables and the battery negative terminal itself.
It is posible that there is a fault with the radio causing it to draw current when switched off - there is a permanently live standby feed to it (red/blue wire).
Scott's suggestions are also worth pursuing.
If you are removing fuses, then with the fuse removed connect the current meter across the fuse holder to see if any current is being drawn - easier than keeping the meter across the earth cable and pulling fuses at the same time.
Items that have a permanent supply are the prime suspects, i.e. Motronic, indicator unit, radio, alarm (if fitted), alternator and clock. The ignition switch could be the cause but only if the current drain is caused by a circuit that is normally only on with the ignition.
To drain the battery over several days you only need a current draw in the region of 100-200mA (0.1-0.2) amps.
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gaillarry
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: |
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" If you are removing fuses, then with the fuse removed connect the current meter across the fuse holder to see if any current is being drawn - easier than keeping the meter across the earth cable and pulling fuses at the same time. "
To do this test, the battery is hooked up (ground cable on the battery) and the meter set on amps?
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Scott_Anderson
Site Admin
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Location: Central Iowa, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| gaillarry wrote: | " If you are removing fuses, then with the fuse removed connect the current meter across the fuse holder to see if any current is being drawn - easier than keeping the meter across the earth cable and pulling fuses at the same time. "
To do this test, the battery is hooked up (ground cable on the battery) and the meter set on amps? |
Yes, that would be correct.
Back to the radio bit. You said that you found the radio turned on, correct?
You did know that there are 4 switch positions for the Ign switch, and the main radio power is disconnected in only 2 of those positions.
There is still small power use by the radio, like in your car, to retain memory and anti-theft feature
Where Im going here is it's possible that it could be as simple as the radio was left on...........
(ON) Ign switch turned full clockwise,,,,, basically engine on(run) position, radio powered. Key cannot be removed.
(R) Next position CCW is engine off, radio still powered. Key may be removed.
(OFF) Next position CCW is engine off, radio power off, steering lock able to engage. Key may be removed.
(P) Next position CCw is engine off, radio power off, steering locked, parking lamps on. Key may be removed.
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Ride safe.
1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
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"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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gaillarry
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Odd, I only have 3 positions on my ignition switch.
I have the wiring diagram but which fuse serves which function? Its not marked in the diagram?
With key off to the far left:
- 3rd fuse from the top is drawing 00.16 amps (presume that's milliamps)
- 5th fuse from the top is drawing 00.17 amps
Total of 9 fuses. No alarm system and radio is turned off.
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Fifth Horseman
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 13
Location: Suffolk, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Correct - 00.16Amps = 160milliamps
I think fuse 3 is the clock & Indicator/Hazard unit.
Unfortunately I can't cross check with my own bike as I'm about 600 miles away from it at the moment.
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Tim (Midland Section)
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 960
Location: Pinxton, Nottingham, England.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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1 Instruments Brake/Tail Light
2 Parking Light
3 Turn Signals, Clock
4 Power Socket
5 Motronic
6 Fuel Pump
7 Horns, Radiator Fan
8 Special Equipment
9 Special Equipment
330 mA total Then. Thats 1/3 Amp, 3 Hours / to lose 1 AH After 30 Hours roughly 1/2 battery capacity gone.
The alternator appears to be connected directly to the battery & unfused. I would disconnect that next. You are looking for IMHO about an Amp discharge.
http://k-technik.pytalhost.com/pdf/K11002.2Fahrwekschaltplanweb.pdf Circuit In German & Colour
The BIG L is the Alternator
HTH
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Last edited by Tim (Midland Section) on Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Inge K.
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 458
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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8 Radio (switched)
9 Radio memory (unswitched). |
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gaillarry
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I had the key switch in the far left position, which I believe is the park position. (key cannot be removed)
I moved the switch to the middle position (key can be removed), getting the same readings.
How do I disconnect the alternator?
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Scott_Anderson
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Central Iowa, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| gaillarry wrote: | I had the key switch in the far left position, which I believe is the park position. (key cannot be removed)
I moved the switch to the middle position (key can be removed), getting the same readings.
How do I disconnect the alternator? |
If you have the key turned all the way left and you cannot remove it, you don't have it turned far enough to lock the steering head.
The only position you SHOULDN'T be able to remove the key is far RIGHT (ign on and able to start the motor).
Chances are (and most key switches probably are this way) your key switch hasn't been turned to the park position for so long it's gummed up and dirty and sticky.
To remove the wires from the alternator you probably need to remove the battery to get to the back side of the alt where the wires are.
_________________
Ride safe.
1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold) |
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gaillarry
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think I found the problem. While looking for the alternator connector noticed a burn mark on the ground wire for the motronics unit. Replaced the wire and now getting readings of:
- 3rd fuse 00.02 milliamps (clock)
- 5th fuse 00.02 milliamps (motronics)
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Inge K.
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 458
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats with your find and solving the problem...............the correct reading should be 20 mA I`ll guess.
But since the Motronic ground wire.....is just a ground wire,,, it must be live wire/connection that is bad to be able to drain voltage.
It have been issues with bad connections on the starter ground wire, then the starter ground travels through the Motronic ground wire, and fry it.
I suggest that you have a closer look at the wires in the area where you allready have been, you must be at the right track since your readings have changed.
Inge K.
Last edited by Inge K. on Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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drikko
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 1966
Location: Brisbane, OZ
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Good find. Inge, 20 mA would be too high, the clock and motronics memory will be well under a mA so the figures are believable, although if the multimeter isn't a $400+ jobbie then it will not be accurate down that low, but a damned good indicator that problem is solved however.
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Ernie-NH
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 982
Location: Bristol, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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The "burnt" ground wire from the back of the Motronic to the Batt(-) is a common fault when the primary ground connection at the Starter face is bad, loose, corroded, or frayed ! I cant believe that the Motronic ground has been the problem, since it is an unnecessary ground to begin with. As Inge notes, it has to be an active voltage conductor to drain a battery as described. Whatever has been done to "overcome" the drain, I'm sure will only be temporary until the real cause is found and corrected. I believe the "ignition switch position" as outlined by Scott to have been the most likely culprit.
Best regards all....// Ernie in NH
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gaillarry
Big Brick Rider
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the replies - I'm back on the road again !
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Inge K.
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 458
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| drikko wrote: | | Inge, 20 mA would be too high, the clock and motronics memory will be well under a mA so the figures are believable. |
You`re correct, out of curiosity I did measure on my own one (same model).
#3. 0,85 mA. (clock)
#5. 0,75 mA. (motronic)
#9. 0,08 mA. (radio)
Inge K. |
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