K11 Owners Group

sccommuter

Today was to be my day to take Phil on a ride and send him on his next journey. The rain over night had moved out, temps were cool and sky clearing.This is one of my favorite local rides, about 135 mi. with plenty of twisties, some sweepers and a few hairpin turns. Took route 28 out of Seneca up to Highlands, NC and stopped for gas. When pulling out of the station I get this grinding, whirring noise. I immediately grab the clutch and coast into a parking lot. Now, WTF was that I'm thinking. So, remove helmet and ear plugs so as to hear the noise better. Fire the bike up, in neutral, no noise. Grab the clutch and get plenty of noise. So, open up the anonymous book and call the closest person listed ( about 10 mi. away) got his voice mail. Call my riding buddy back home, he's in New York helping his daughter move. Call my neighbor, voice mail again. Folks, there isn't any bike shops for at least 50 miles, so I call the local tow company. While talking to the tow company, my neighbor returns my call. He's borrowed a trailer and is already on his way. When loading the bike the tow company owner sees us and stops to make sure we were in good shape and didn't need his services. Man. I like small towns. About this time the person from the anonymous book returns my call. He had just gotten home from Ohio on his bike and offered his help. I told him we were go to go and thanked him for returning my call. He told me to call anytime I was up that way and we'd take a ride together.
Now the fun begins, attempt the repair myself or take it to the shop? The easiest thing to do is write a check. The hardest is filling in the amount. I've gotta go back up into the surly skies tomorrow for 6-9 days, so I'll have time to think about it. Obviously the problem is clutch related. Any ideas beyond that?
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1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject:

Well, how do you feel about tearing into it.
Have you got a place to be able to work on it. Some tools available or able to borrow.

With the bike on the center stand, put the trans in gear, engine off:
can you turn the rear wheel.
Try and listen real close to where the noises may be coming from.

You could be lucky enough for the drive shaft to have broken a u-joint, or stripped the splines on one end of the yoke.

Either way you are going to have to start at the rear and start removing parts going forward.

1st. the final drive and drive shaft. If it looks good with clean and crisp splines, then it's time to remove the transmission and look at the input splines there as well as the clutch disk.
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Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

SugarHillCTD · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject:

David,

If you have the space and some tools, (plus a bit of time) we could all lead you through some diagnosis and fix.

Scott already gave you some preliminary things to look at.

Let us know.

John
_________________
John & Cathy

'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F.

sccommuter · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject:

ok, using my trusty wooden dowel rod and old ears the sound seems to be towards the forward part of the swing arm (forward portion of drive shaft) when turning the wheel.. When I rock the rear wheel back and forth the clunk is very pronounced.
As far as space and tools, the garage is a little tight. I've got my 8 ft work bench and the 6 x 9 ft space the bike sits in, no lift. Tool wise, I've got your basic tools (i.e. sockets, box ends...) no specialty tools. Time is one thing I have plenty of.

David
_________________
1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum

SugarHillCTD · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject:

David,

I did a clutch R&R on my first K11RS with basic tools and a floor jack but no other special equipment.

From your dowel diagnosis, it sounds like the front of your driveshaft has a bad U joint (not too bad) or a stripped transmission output shaft (a bit more involved).
Those two could be investigated with the bike on its centerstand. I have a thread about driveshaft R&R.
Even if the problem is deeper, you should remove the final drive (FD) and swingarm anyhow.

Let us know what you do and if you are doing the work yourself, let us know what you find.

John
_________________
John & Cathy

'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F.

sccommuter · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject:

Well, I've been studying my Clymer and have decided to give it a go myself. I'll never learn anything if I don't try. I'll by a new memory card for the camera and take lots of notes so I can put it back together. I won't be able to get started for several days, but I'll keep you updated. Thanks for the support.

David
_________________
1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum

SugarHillCTD · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject:

David,

I am moving your thread to the tech section for more member attention.

John
_________________
John & Cathy

'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F.

Stoked Steve · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject:

Sounds a lot like my drive shaft failure. I was really lucky and found a used drive shaft on E-bay for $60! It was a bit of a project, but nothing too scary once you dive in.

We can walk (or stumble) you through it.

My thread on the issue....

http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6730&highlight=
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Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
93 K1100RS Mystic Red SOLD
12 Suzuki DL650A VStrom

blue95lt · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: Grab clutch and noise? Scott,John

I dont know if he let the clutch out yet or not so, can he just have a bad Bering on the clutch arm? The small flat one behind the bellows on the clutch arm push rod ?
Is the bellows/boot ok there? Or is it bad and allowed the ball Bering to go bad? Just another thought. Keith
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1995 k1100lt daily ride(22953)when I got it
1982 cb650sc blue nighthawk (38000)(crashed)
1974 kz400(sold to get nighthawk)

sccommuter · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject:

Keith,
The boot is in good shape. With the bike in neutral, no noise. As soon as I apply any pressure to the clutch handle the noise starts. So I never fully pulled the clutch in or put it in gear.
_________________
1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum

blue95lt · Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: So why ?

Ok so you didn't put it in gear or let the clutch out so why put blame on the
U joints or things after that? Could it just be pilot bearing or clutch push rod
Problems?
_________________
1995 k1100lt daily ride(22953)when I got it
1982 cb650sc blue nighthawk (38000)(crashed)
1974 kz400(sold to get nighthawk)

sccommuter · Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:50 am Post subject:

Keith,
Maybe I should clarify what I said. When the problem occurred I was in gear (1st) and rolling. Now, trying to diagnose the problem at home is when the noise occurs as I put pressure on the clutch handle. I follow your line of thinking and appreciate it.

David
_________________
1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum

Mike d · Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:30 am Post subject:

As well as the grinding noise, did you also lose drive?

Mike

sccommuter · Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:47 am Post subject:

to be honest, I didn't try driving it once I got it stopped for fear of damaging it worse. The noise was just too expensive sounding for me to feel comfortable trying to drive it. I am able to roll the bike easily with the indicator showing 1st gear. Any thoughts on the risk of further damage if I do try?
_________________
1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum

SugarHillCTD · Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:10 am Post subject:

sccommuter · Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:44 am Post subject:

Yep!

There is some noise and it doesn't roll as easily as in neutral, but it rolls.
Well, I'm heading for ATL to start my travels. I'll check in here when I can. Will start pulling it apart when I get back in town.
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1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum

sccommuter · Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject:

Well, finally had some time to start taking it apart. Pulled the rubber boot from the FD and look what fell out.

right hand pivot bearing

spline on rear portion of drive shaft.

all other splines look OK. U-joints are tight. Inner retaining ring on forward rubber boot was laying loose in boot. Minimal grease on splines. However, I'm not convinced I've found the main problem. I can turn the drive shaft by hand while in gear. I'm afraid the problem lies further forward. Would it be a problem to start the bike as is and see if I still get the noise? What more do I have to do to pull the tranny and get a look at the clutch splines? I guess I need to pull it to lube it anyway.

Thanks for your input,
David
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1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum

whyoldbill · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject:

The Duck documented it here http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=332.0
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'02 - GL1800

The desired effect is what you get when you improve your interplanetary funksmanship - George Clinton

SugarHillCTD · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:32 pm Post subject:

David,

IMHO, starting it up isn't going to give you any further diagnosis. I would start to work my way forward to get to the clutch.

Being a '95, you have ABS II and need to disconnect the brake lines. Scott_Anderson has the scoop on this, both his bikes are ABS II and has done his.

IMPORTANT- a few months ago when I did my driveshaft R&R, my FD pivot bearings looked similar- some of the rollers were missing from the bearing and I found them in the flex boot. A new pair of roller bearings will run you a C note plus shipping. Give Tom Cutter http://rubberchickenracinggarage.com/bushings.html a call or email and get a set of his bushings as a better replacement- much more durable and no rollers to wander off. You can also get some Honda Moly paste from him.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

John
_________________
John & Cathy

'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F.

sccommuter · Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject:

my thinking on starting the bike was to see if the noise was gone and therefore coming from the section I've removed (FD, drive shaft) or it was still present. There by telling me I have more to look forward too. I've been reading Gwen's post about pulling her tranny and clutch. Kind of scary, but if I take my time and label I should be ok. What do you think of that rear spline? Replace? These 2 part drive shafts seem to only be sold as a set @$700 from BMW- OUCH!!
_________________
1995 K1100 LT
Illegitimi non Carborundum