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HELP; high mile K1100LT terrible fuel mileage and more
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illicit.nz
Brick Rider


Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject: HELP; high mile K1100LT terrible fuel mileage and more Reply with quote

Hi all,
Just picked up a high mile '97 K1100LT (USA) in south Florida.
bike is well built, but admittedly has some issues id like to try get cleared..

first off is the terrible fuel mileage, picked up on Sunday morning and filled from empty with high octane, have done about 70 miles and have used over 1/2 a tank gas at maybe 25 miles freeway @60-70mph and some coastal slow speed cruising and shopping trips.
any tips on where to start, fuel filter? injector cleaner? codes?

also when riding in the 80F temps we're getting here i'm getting a very strong fuel smell while riding, like its circulating in the "cockpit" between me and the screen. the gasket at the filler appears old and the whole thing needs a clean, but also seems like the fuel tank is not venting out its vent and is pressurizing in the heat as when I open the cap i'm getting a psshhhh noise.
where should I start looking for the tank vent system on these?
also any obvious codes that would cause a very high MPG issue? Water temp sensor?

also planning on a bit of a birthday for the old brick; Engine oil and filter, spark plugs, shaft oil, gearbox oil, air filter, fuel filter, all brake pads etc as plan on doing some long riding through December and January and would like as few issues as possible.

do you guys run semi synthetic engine oil or full? feel full synthetic may be a bit overkill on a bike like this?

also, this may be a tad contentious but ive got a dual flashing ABS light (left-right-left) at all times when riding and to be honest id rather remove the abs and have no more thought on it. anyone tried this before?

thanks in advance all, sorry for a million Q's in one thread.
Isaac
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Grunter
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Joined: 30 Sep 2015
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Location: North East England

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Fuel Consumption Reply with quote

Yes there does seem to be a problem. How is the bike running when it is warm? Does it hesitate or feel reluctant to pull as it should? As you describe a smell of fuel to me is suggests a leak somewhere in the system. Possibly the pipe which carries the fuel returning to the tank which is a bit of a pig to get to.

If I remember correctly the vent pipe exits under the tank and is a flexible pipe and this can get trapped so stopping air from getting into the tank, however it must be really bad because air would naturally enter via the key position in the filler flap.

When I had a K1100 and on a long ride, especially on the Continent of Europe where I could ride for miles at 65-75mph, I could reliably achieve over 200 miles to the tank, so 70 mile for half a tank is not very impressive.

It may be that a simple split in one of the fuel pipes is all that is wrong

The ABS can be disconnected quite safely by removing the relay inside the relay box - it is the smaller of the two blue ones at the front of the box. You must also remove the flashing bulbs inside the instrument console. Not a difficult job but a lengthy one because you have to remove the screen and part of the top of the fairing to get to it.

As for oil. There could be a whole forum dedicated to oil itself. BMW recommend in UK a 20/50 mineral oil for use in high temperatures and that is what I used in the summer. In the winter I changed that to a 15/40 which is a lot thinner.
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1997 K1100LT
1994 R1100RS
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illicit.nz
Brick Rider


Joined: 11 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel Consumption Reply with quote

Grunter wrote:
Yes there does seem to be a problem. How is the bike running when it is warm? Does it hesitate or feel reluctant to pull as it should? As you describe a smell of fuel to me is suggests a leak somewhere in the system. Possibly the pipe which carries the fuel returning to the tank which is a bit of a pig to get to.

If I remember correctly the vent pipe exits under the tank and is a flexible pipe and this can get trapped so stopping air from getting into the tank, however it must be really bad because air would naturally enter via the key position in the filler flap.

When I had a K1100 and on a long ride, especially on the Continent of Europe where I could ride for miles at 65-75mph, I could reliably achieve over 200 miles to the tank, so 70 mile for half a tank is not very impressive.

It may be that a simple split in one of the fuel pipes is all that is wrong

The ABS can be disconnected quite safely by removing the relay inside the relay box - it is the smaller of the two blue ones at the front of the box. You must also remove the flashing bulbs inside the instrument console. Not a difficult job but a lengthy one because you have to remove the screen and part of the top of the fairing to get to it.

As for oil. There could be a whole forum dedicated to oil itself. BMW recommend in UK a 20/50 mineral oil for use in high temperatures and that is what I used in the summer. In the winter I changed that to a 15/40 which is a lot thinner.


Hi,
it seems to pull fine, my only other bike was a kawasaki ER6N which definutely went harder but was probably less than 1/2 the weight and maybe a bit more than 1/2 the power. i dont really have a benchmark for a bike like this but my butt dyno doesnt feel disapointed by the k11 considering its heft?

ill start hunting around for the supply/return and vent hoses. seller included the clymer manual which is incredibly comprehensive!

thanks, ill likely return the synthetic and get some semi synthetic, just seems a bit OTT for this bike.
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illicit.nz
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Joined: 11 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also is there a good source for new/used bmw K parts in the USA?
would like to at least try replace the filler gasket while i can.
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Jim
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Isaac - welcome to the forum!

There are a number used / new parts places. If you're buying a lot of parts - check Motorworks - they're often cheaper than US dealers - and shipping is fast.

https://k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4258

For something small like gas cap repair parts, you'll probably want new. I mostly buy from Max BMW.

https://shop.maxbmw.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=51711&rnd=07242017
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Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repairing
1992 K75RTP 46,000
1992 R100R 24,000 - FOR SALE

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."


Last edited by Jim on Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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illicit.nz
Brick Rider


Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the links, good to see you can Still source parts new from BMW after 20 off years!

Isaac
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Mike d
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Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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Location: Daventry UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ABS2 system is usually very reliable.

The alternate flashing ABS lights can be caused by a low battery at start up. If it is a low battery, then if you ride for a few miles, then stop and immediately re-start the bike it is likely the system will reset and the ABS will function.

Mike
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Flying Duck
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the bottom of this page to see how to reset ABS:

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/abs/abs.htm


Motobins is also a good place to buy parts. Shipping only takes about a week but avoid buying anything that weighs so much that it requires FedEx as that can be a nightmare.

http://motobins.co.uk
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
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illicit.nz
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Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again All.

have spent the evening toying with the big red K; new engine oil, filter, shaft/axle oil and gearbox oil done! also managed to give the windscreen a polish up and some exterior shine to the carrier bags.


I pulled the fuel filler to have a look at its condition, messy and the gasket between the filler and the tank is Very Bad so will source another, the one on the flip lid cleaned up fine.
while in there I noticed that the fuel pump is spraying a fine mist out from its housing right towards the filler cap (convenient!!!) so suspect this is one cause of the fuel smell and leak around the cap if its being bombarded with fuel.
there is a broken O ring around the fuel pump that is damaged and loose so will orded the gaskets and read about the fuel pumps if they can be rebuilt or are just a swap out unit? will throw a new filter in too as current has an '04 manufacturing date...
also need to keep hunting for this fuel ventilation plumbing, had a look behind the fairings and saw a small pipe that looked like it had some bodge job done on the left hand side. fairings to come off for air filter anyway so may as well keep going!

thanks for the advice above;
Isaac
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Jim
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Fuel taknk venting Reply with quote

Isaac - my last link didn't take for some reason.

For info on gas tanks and venting, search for "accumulator" Not sure why I couldn't create a link to the search results. You'll get lots of information on that page.

No - the pump shouldn't be spraying - but I think you know that.

Either Boneyard or Motorworks carries 2 pumps. They both look the same - one costs a little more and is made right from the Bosch drawings. The other one is a good enough knock off. Pretty sure Beemer Boneyard has them. There are cheaper automotive aftermarket pumps, but they usually need some adapting.
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Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repairing
1992 K75RTP 46,000
1992 R100R 24,000 - FOR SALE

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."
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Grunter
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Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 367
Location: North East England

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject: Spare Parts Reply with quote

Flying Duck wrote:
Look at the bottom of this page to see how to reset ABS:

http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/abs/abs.htm


Motobins is also a good place to buy parts. Shipping only takes about a week but avoid buying anything that weighs so much that it requires FedEx as that can be a nightmare.

http://motobins.co.uk


Yes they sell spares but only new ones. They discontinued the used parts department some years ago. The places to go for good used parts with a 6 month guarantee is Motorworks, also in UK Just google www.motorworks.co.uk or Sherlock's..... www.sherlocks.co.uk Not as good as Motorworks but they can find some things unobtainable elsewhere.

Of the three if you are after new parts Motobins usually work out the cheapest.
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1994 R1100RS
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Grunter
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel taknk venting Reply with quote

Jim wrote:
Isaac - my last link didn't take for some reason.

For info on gas tanks and venting, search for "accumulator" Not sure why I couldn't create a link to the search results. You'll get lots of information on that page.

No - the pump shouldn't be spraying - but I think you know that.

Either Boneyard or Motorworks carries 2 pumps. They both look the same - one costs a little more and is made right from the Bosch drawings. The other one is a good enough knock off. Pretty sure Beemer Boneyard has them. There are cheaper automotive aftermarket pumps, but they usually need some adapting.


Be aware that BMW used two types of pumps. One was fitted to K bikes pre 1989 whilst the other was always used with the K1100 bikes. There are two differences, the new one (the correct is actually smaller than the the other) and has a gauze bag fitted over one end to catch detritus and the earlier one has a plastic cup also gauze lined for the same reason.

One other thing that may affect the consumption and that is if there was any water in the tank and this was sucked into the fuel filter, the filter will be dead. As dead as the Monty Python Parrot. Water will make the filter contents collapse and possibly cause fuel starvation. It will need replacement, not difficult but a bit of a fiddle
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Flying Duck
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy to check the fuel filter. Take it out and blow through it. It should flow pretty easily.

NAPA 3032 filter is only about $5.
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93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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Grunter
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Fuel Filter Reply with quote

Flying Duck wrote:
Easy to check the fuel filter. Take it out and blow through it. It should flow pretty easily.

NAPA 3032 filter is only about $5.


Not so. The filter part is susceptible to water damage and will almost cerainly collapse internally should any water manage to get through. It will block the exit or pickup,

Additionally blowing through them can also bring with it the risk of poisoning through ingestion of any remaining fuel.

Not really an idea that is from the top of the tree.
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1994 R1100RS
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SugarHillCTD
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flying Duck wrote:
Easy to check the fuel filter. Take it out and blow through it. It should flow pretty easily.

NAPA 3032 filter is only about $5.


I have done this.

Wiped off the inlet end and blew ONLY.
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Flying Duck
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel Filter Reply with quote

Grunter wrote:
Flying Duck wrote:
Easy to check the fuel filter. Take it out and blow through it. It should flow pretty easily.

NAPA 3032 filter is only about $5.


Not so. The filter part is susceptible to water damage and will almost cerainly collapse internally should any water manage to get through. It will block the exit or pickup,

Additionally blowing through them can also bring with it the risk of poisoning through ingestion of any remaining fuel.

Not really an idea that is from the top of the tree.


I said BLOW on it, not suck gas into your mouth. I do it all the time.

Water can cause the fibers in the filter to swell and limit flow.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grunter said: "Be aware that BMW used two types of pumps. One was fitted to K bikes pre 1989 whilst the other was always used with the K1100 bikes. There are two differences, the new one (the correct is actually smaller than the the other) and has a gauze bag fitted over one end to catch detritus and the earlier one has a plastic cup also gauze lined for the same reason."

I wasn't talking about the 2 different types of pumps!

My intended meaning was there are 2 pumps available from different manufacturers. I also intended to link to EME - couldn't remember who had them. https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/

Here's a link to the cheaper one - you have to buy the bits that go with it if yours are done:

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/BMW-R-K-EDL-Repl-Fuel-Pump-16-14-1-341-231-p/fp-231edl.htm

And this is the link to the one made from the Bosch drawings (more money):

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/BMW-R-K-VDO-Repl-Fuel-Pump-16-14-1-341-231-p/fp-231oe.htm

Both pumps are good. You can find cheaper stuff on ebay - but it's probably junk. Looks like EME actually has better prices than Amazon.

Filters and other fuel related bits here: https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category-s/1898.htm Filters might cost a bit more, but they usually last for years.

If you can find a "dead" pump, they can often be revived by a good soak in Techron or SeaFoam.
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repairing
1992 K75RTP 46,000
1992 R100R 24,000 - FOR SALE

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."
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Flying Duck
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And of you're really into fixing things sometimes you can take an old pump apart and fix it.

Here's a 93 and earlier fuel pump repair: http://dws.x10host.com/11tech/K%20Fuel%20Pump%20Repair.pdf
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE
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illicit.nz
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Joined: 11 Nov 2018
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again,
Progressing through the worklist well!
New tyres, new brake pads, brake fluid bled out, new spark plugs, ordered new wires as old ones pretty crap. Changed engine oil and filter, shaft oil and gearbox oil and new fuel tank filer gasket.
Have also found that someone has installed a fuel pressure gauge on the supply to the fuel rail, maybe not essential but could be handy. Appears to be running dead at 42psi which is nice to know.

Have got around to replacing the rocker/camshaft cover gasket and noticed once the fairings are off that it's more likely to be leaking from the front engine/timing cover, not the small one at the crank end of the Engine but the bigger front cover.

Trouble is I can't seem to find a pre made gasket that goes in there? Is there one or is it a case of make your own with gasket maker there?


Have ordered the new fuel pump and plug leads from Euromotoelectrics so will also do fuel filter at same time. Checked out air filter with fairings off and looks brand new thankfully!
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Grunter
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Oil Leak Reply with quote

The timing cover does not use a gasket. The seal is made using silicone liquid gasket with a suitable temperature tolerance.

The only part that may give trouble is the bottom right corner where there is a joint where the valve cover, timing cover and crankcase meet. Sometimes the machining of the joint(s) are not quite perfect and a little more silicone is required. Once set, the silicone will stop any oil loss
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