K11 Owners Group

[SugarHillCTD]

At jpberens prodding and to help anyone here with a similar situation, I thought I would repost something here that I have asked about over on the BMWMOA forum.
I have always had a slow oil leak that shows up along the bottom of the timing cover. After a few hundred miles the bike smells when I park it due to the engine oil blowing back onto the headers. I had thought that it was because my 3 attempts at resealing the cover were unsuccessful. Well that may not be the case. So check out my last MOA post.....



UPDATE.....maybe this is the answer???

I have finally had it with the front/bottom of the engine looking like a toxic waste site.


98lee's question about the pressure sensor got me thinking- not about the sensor area but of the oil pump itself.

Looking through the Clymer book (semi-decent reference) I was looking at how to remove the water/oil pump assembly- page 116 in my edition- when I came across this little gem:


Gee- 2:00- right next to where the wet oil is on the outside of the engine. AND when I pulled the pump assembly off, wanna' guess what I found? Yep, I had to pry a solid plug of old sealer out of that "U" shaped groove.



Come to think of it that has been a wet spot since I bought the bike 3+ years ago

I ain't happy until I reassemble and run it, but the waste site just might be coming to a good ending. Stay tuned........

John
_________________
John & Cathy

'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F.

[Tim (Midland Section)]

Bugger, now I have no excuse not to sort mine, which I thought was the chain cover too. Similarly 3 years.
_________________
Regards Tim,

Grey haired riders don't get that way by pure luck
1996 Guzzi Cali3 LAPD
1972 750 Commando
G6HRN
#485

[SugarHillCTD]

Tim,

Really easy to do EXCEPT applying just the right amount of sealer between the block and the pump assembly.

Too little and maybe a leaker (I am not sure about mine until I put some miles on)- too much and well, that little "U" channel gets clogged up and you end up right back where the leak started from....

A design flaw from BMW? No, it couldn't be.

Good luck.
John
_________________
John & Cathy

'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F.

[2xcelr8]

Keep us posted as I have two that exhibit a similar leak although apparently not as bad as you experienced.
_________________
Doug
'96 K1100RS, '94 K1100LT, '84 Honda VF700F Interceptor (4 sale)

[blue95lt]

Hi John
I'm Keith(blue95lt)
I was wondering what was (bad)in your bike with the oil seeping at the back of the pan,up on the front of eng. and maybe the weep hole on the bottom of bell housing?
My 95k11lt has about the same identical seepage spots!!,your bike been talking to my bike? just joking John.
thanks Keith

p.s. appx.only 59,000 miles on it!
_________________
1995 k1100lt daily ride(22953)when I got it
1982 cb650sc blue nighthawk (38000)(crashed)
1974 kz400(sold to get nighthawk)

[garydi]

Based upon your write up and others, I've decided to get at my own toxic waste site on my 94. I never thought there were this many screws to hold the pump to the motor. Two of them were only finger tight. I would highly suggest a power wash to this area before attempting this repair. My bike was driven on gravel roads and had sand caked everywhere! The worst part of this so far is getting the pump assembly clean enough to work on with sand everywhere. After scrubbing and three cans of brake fluid, two and one half hours, I'm ready to put it back together. And yes, my little half moon WAS plugged. Gas tank removal, drain the oil and antifreeze, and loostening the front panel of the LT was what I needed for access. Front wheel can stay on and you can work on the floor on your back for assembly and dissembly. Sure wish I woulda done this when I had the bike apart this winter and up in the air.

Thanks for all the good pics and write ups.
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k1100lt 94 46000 miles
harley elec glide classic 08
honda v750s sabre 82

[SugarHillCTD]

[garydi]

John,

I also followed the write up in the Clymer manual to apply the gasket material right areas indicated in the manual. My parts guy said to use Permatex anaerobic gasket maker. It's a red product that does not harden.
Over one hundred miles so far and that bugger hase not leaked yet. Me and my garage floor thank you.
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k1100lt 94 46000 miles
harley elec glide classic 08
honda v750s sabre 82

[tmarshall57]

I recently had an oil leak from the same location and, like the earlier poster (garydi), noticed that 3 or 4 of the bolts holding the oil/water pump were only finger tight. I would definitely tighten any loose bolts before assuming anything more complicated is to blame for the leak.
_________________
K1100RS Special Edition 1997
Arctic Silver/Black

[RobBowker]

Huge thanks for this post John (OP). I'd missed it first time around because I was searching Tech threads for "oil AND water AND pump". Now bookmarked!
_________________
1998 K1100LT SE
1995 Honda NTV 650 P (now sold)
1986 BMW R80RT TIC (the money pit - sold)
1981 CX500B (sold)
1981 Honda C70 (sold)
1981 Honda C90 (written off on a gravelly bend!)
1960s BSA Bantam D7 (never did get it running)

[RobBowker]

I tackled this job over the weekend - I thought it would take a day but it took me two. I am very much an amateur mechanic but have a basic set of tools and a cramped and unlit garage to work in. Here's my 17-part sequence with 'after the event' notes which I hope may benefit anyone else wanting to fix the "Two O'clock drip":

Day 1 - 4 hours

1] Remove crash bars and lower fairing
2] Clean pump housing and oil sump plug* (not easy, not 100% possible if you have had a leak - grit sticks to oil)
3] Drain oil (*I reused my oil), and antifreeze at lower hose. I don't know how to remove the hose from the expansion tank - not regular hose clips at either end - so I pumped it out using a pump action spray nozzle. Replace oil sump plug.

Day 2 - 9 hours

4] Remove pump cover. Clean up the bolts and replace any that have damaged threads. Most are 'through bolts' and may be stiff with corrosion or sealant, half mine were.
5] Disconnect oil and water temp sensor wires and push back through hole in pump. One at a time, boots left on, there's room. If you have both sensors on the pump, tie-wrap one of the leads and make a note which it is.
6] Remove pump. Bolts came out easy*. The drive gear came with it but dropped out when I turned it over. I kept it safe and put a new O ring on it (what the hell, I'm in there anyway). *Clymer manual shows all the bolts - my pump has one more though! Mine is also a different design to the one in Clymer. On the pump/engine mating surface, there's an arc shaped oil channel at the top. Still, if you think you removed all the bolts and it doesn't come off, check for one hiding away at centre top.
8] Clean the pump some more and clean the mating surfaces - especially the large bore water channel where the big O ring goes. I used white spirit and a wire rack over a roasting pan to keep the insides as clean as possible. Mine showed some corrosion so I used a combination of Scotchbrite pad and penknife to scrape clean. Rinse of any Scotchbrite pad residue. Also used a whittled twig to clean out the oxidised aluminium from O ring groove.
9] Stick a new O ring in with grease.
10] Clean out the (utterly bunged up as it turned out) oil return channel with a sewing needle - hook it out, don't push it further in!
11] I ordered Drei Bond 1216 (as per Clymer) but Moto-Bins sent Drei Bond 1209. The tube says it is BMW approved and suitable as an oil pump flange gasket sealant. I used a LOT less than the previous mechanic, a scant 1mm bead. It was easy to see where the oil return channel mated with the pump body as it had made a faint impression on the pump's mating surface. Other than allowing for the different design of my pump, I followed the Clymer drawing for the bead of sealant.
12] Do a final check for bits of grit etc which might have got in while cleaning the casing. Replace the drive gear in the pump housing at approx. right orientation to match the slots on the engine casing shaft. Install pump, rotate coolant impeller to locate the tabs on the drive shaft and the pump slides back into place. I don't have a low-values torque wrench so I improvised. The bolts should be 4-6 ft/lbs. I used 2 x 2.5kg gym weights (10.5 lbs) zip tied together on a 6" ratchet. Equivalent to about 5.25 ft/lbs. I used a dab of copper anti-seize on all bolts. Tighten in crisscross pattern. Worry if you have overdone the sealant...
13] Rethread the sender wire(s) and attach to senders. I poked what I could through and grabbed the protruding end with pliers to pull them through, one at a time.
14] Apply 1mm bead of sealant to pump cover (stay inside the bolt holes) and bolt on to same torque as above. This is a bit sketchier as there's no locating protuberance to help line it up - and you need to make sure not to pinch the sender wires.
15] Refill oil (after checking sump plug is installed)
16] Reconnect lower coolant hose, tighten the hose clip and fill up with coolant. I used Halfords OAT, silicate-free, ethylene glycol based readymix (-34C - 108C). Bleed the system of air as instructed in Clymer.
17] Replace fairing and crash bars (stick the nut and washer to the 13mm socket with grease to aid installation of the top crash bar fitting).

NOTE: When I removed the pump, the top oil channel (not shown in Clymer) was full of sealant, along with the oil return channel. The O ring was original red colour, the new one I used was black. The gasket sealant had been applied with a trowel and with much enthusiasm. At under 40,000 miles and with no documented removals of the pump, it makes me wonder if this was how it left the factory. And if it was, how come it hasn't caused a leak until a couple of years ago?
_________________
1998 K1100LT SE
1995 Honda NTV 650 P (now sold)
1986 BMW R80RT TIC (the money pit - sold)
1981 CX500B (sold)
1981 Honda C70 (sold)
1981 Honda C90 (written off on a gravelly bend!)
1960s BSA Bantam D7 (never did get it running)

[Jim]

One thing I've heard mentioned a couple times by different BMW mechanics - after sealant is applied, and the bike is reassembled, let the bike sit - without starting it - for at least 24 hours. This allows the sealant to cure completely (one hopes).
_________________
Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repairing
1992 K75RTP 46,000
1992 R100R 24,000 - FOR SALE

"We shall not all die, but we shall all be changed."

[RobBowker]

[Dfnder]

For a k1100RS Does it require removal of the upper fairing or only the bottom? As well I was thinking of doing the timing cover gasket as well, I haven't gotten a clymer manual yet... Can you do the timing cover with only removing the valve cover?
_________________
'96 K1100RS 40,000km

[Dfnder]

1996 k1100rs
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'96 K1100RS 40,000km

[SugarHillCTD]

IIRC, you don't need to remove the valve cover to reseal the timing cover.

And there is no gasket on the timing cover- Permatex or similar only.
_________________
John & Cathy

'92 K100RS4V Pearl White SOLD
'04 K1200GT
IBA Several-SS1k, BBG, 50CC NYC to S.F.