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Flying Duck PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005 Posts: 10088 Location: Bumf***, WA
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:08 pm Post subject: Guard Dog Moly Gear Oil Additive |
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When I first put this stuff in my LT over the summer I didn't really notice any change. I wasn't impressed. However, once I put a few thousands miles on it the bike started shifting better so it does seem to work.
I also put some in my K75 and that is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t shifting K bike I've ever had but I did it from the start when I built the bike so have nothing to compare it to.
Anyhow, I think this stuff actually works.
As for wear reduction, who knows but I'd guess it works on that front too. It'll be interesting to see how much stuff has collected on the drain plugs (I did the FD too) at the next gear oil change.
YMMV. _________________ 93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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jpberens1994K1100RS Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 784 Location: Hales Corners, WI. / Relocating to central FL.
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject: +1 |
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The products are EXPENSIVE!! The products WORK!!
There is no magic bullet for a mechanical problem, but this product line works as advetised. If you are in doubt about exactly WHAT you need, give them a call. Very helpful over the phone or via e-mail.
I ordered off the web site and the owner contacted me directly though e-mail wondering how I heard about them, then personally verified my order.
If you are not into mixing 2 lubes for the ideal lube paste on your splines, these guys have what you need for that as well. _________________ 1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge |
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RAL88 Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 736 Location: New Mexico Land of Enchantment and 365 days of riding USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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I emulsify my moly powder into the oil for both the tranny and the final drive. I've noticed easier shifting and at least in the final drive with my infrared thermometer a reduction in the final drives temp under similar conditions. I also make my own spline lube using the Wurth SIG 3000 and mixing in my moly powder which makes a very dark stick mess that holds like glue on the splines. _________________ Rich
"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R |
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Ted Site Admin
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 1117 Location: Further
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to Rich I too added the moly powder to my transmission and it made a huge difference, going into the final drive next. _________________ Ted
KOG#1 |
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jpberens1994K1100RS Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 784 Location: Hales Corners, WI. / Relocating to central FL.
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: Moly powder |
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From where does the magic moly powder hail? _________________ 1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
2014 Moto Guzzi Norge |
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Ted Site Admin
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 1117 Location: Further
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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You would have to ask Rich though I think you can get it from Guard Dog I added the correct amount of powder to a 1-liter bottle of Mobil-1 synthetic gear oil, then shook, tossed, tumbled and basically mixed the hell out of it for a good 10 minutes. Adding it was a bit difficult as the Moly turns the oil from that lovely amber shade to jet black and adding the treated oil seemed a bit counter-intuitive. But there was no problems, my Ratio-Rite cleaned up just as it always has (awesome $4 investment) and while the noticeable improvement in shifting happened not immediately but after 100 miles or so, it was then sudden and substantial. _________________ Ted
KOG#1 |
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jpberens1994K1100RS Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 784 Location: Hales Corners, WI. / Relocating to central FL.
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: Moly powder |
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Yeah, I figures Rich may chime in.
Otherwise, I need to order more GD moly treatment for my gear drive & transmission. Time for the change come first spring warm up and I want to be ready.
If we get one of those January thaws, I may do it then as I don't long term store the K over winter. _________________ 1993 K1100RS that I'd rather be riding FAST!
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RAL88 Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 736 Location: New Mexico Land of Enchantment and 365 days of riding USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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I ordered mine from here.
https://www.host-manager.com/stores/rosemillcom/product.asp?productid=258465
It is not cheap, $48.50 but you get 1lb of the 1.5 micron size and it's enough to last a long time. If you get some let me know and I can get you the ratio of how much you need for the trans and final drive.
Now the best is the tungsten disulfide which is much better at reducing friction but it is also denser and will fall out of solution faster. It is also smaller and can actually be used in the engine oil and not be taken out by the oil filter. It is also more expensive. _________________ Rich
"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R |
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merlin geikie Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 343 Location: Lismore far north coast nsw australia
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:46 am Post subject: NOW WE ARE TALKING |
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Rich mention a new additive.
Quote: | Now the best is the tungsten disulfide which is much better at reducing friction |
Give us as much low down on the tungsten disulphide as you can please Rich .
Rich seems pretty well up to speed with the new technologies .
I have been using moly for years.
Thanks Rich |
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RAL88 Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 736 Location: New Mexico Land of Enchantment and 365 days of riding USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
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I had done a lot of reading on both the moly and tungsten lubes. The tungsten has the lowest coefficient of friction out there and is used in a lot of things including NASA and the aerospace industry. It is far superior to the moly and what I have been reading recently is that even though the tungsten is denser than moly it's smaller size helps keep it in solution better. The finer particles also to a better job off filling in scoring marks which makes for more friction free movement.
I am going to pick some up to use in the engine oil this summer. I will be working on the ratio I need to add to the engine oil and will let everyone know what i come up with.
The price has also come down on tungsten and here is another place where you can purchase it.
http://www.lowerfriction.com/
Here are some specs
http://www.ws2oil.com/what-is-ws2.html _________________ Rich
"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R |
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Phil Marvin Rider in the Sky
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 1389 Location: El Paso, Texas, USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Aw, come on, guys. Keep using the Moly. It's one of the things we mine, aside from copper and gold! We don't mine tungsten.
Ride Safe,
Phil Marvin - working at the Morenci, AZ mine of Freeport McMoRan Copper and Gold, Inc. |
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Flying Duck PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005 Posts: 10088 Location: Bumf***, WA
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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A little update:
I added the Guard Dog moly gear oil stuff to my LT final drive and transmission about 12,000 miles ago. Yesterday I drained both of them prior to doing a spline lube. Much to my amazement there was virtually nothing on either of magnetic drain plugs. That's just crazy after 12,000 miles. _________________ 93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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laverda Mad Brick Rider
Joined: 02 Feb 2010 Posts: 90 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yet another useful prodect not easily available in the UK !
I had a look through my oilsgreases etc... & came across a tube of this stuff :
Do you reckon it's worth throwing this in at the next gearbox oil change ?
The last time I went to the U.S. the majority of my baggage allowance on the flight home was made up of oils & accessories etc...! _________________ "A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing." |
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Flying Duck PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005 Posts: 10088 Location: Bumf***, WA
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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That sure looks like the right kind of stuff. _________________ 93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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merlin geikie Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 343 Location: Lismore far north coast nsw australia
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Have a look at the ingredients and read up a lil on google.
The moly in a tube for gearboxes has been around a long time in oz but was put on the back shelf after all the teflon products came out.
Reno Del Ben, a well-known classic K rider who has clocked nearly one million miles on the one K75, told the Kbmw list that he put a nub of moly 60% grease in gearbox and final drive.
Good enough for me, I do that too now.
As FD says, good results, he knows his stuff, be sure about that.
The Guard Dog stuff is very very good and used at the highest level of industry.
That stuff in your picture should be about the consistency of runny honey and enormously black and slippery.
All the best and don't overdo it though.
Robert Fleischer a renown bmw guru, warns that you have to be sure that sensitive spindle bearings retain enough grip on the bearing race, to keep rotating and not just slide over the race, eventually causing uneven wear and premature spindle bearing failure. |
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Flying Duck PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005 Posts: 10088 Location: Bumf***, WA
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't used it but the GD 525 stuff supposedly has some uber-stickiness to keep the moly around longer so you need to spline lube less often. _________________ 93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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Sonu Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 396 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Rich,
Just ordered some so please do share the recipe.
Sanjiv _________________ 1997 K1100LT "Ziggy" _GarminGPS_Corbin saddle_K Guards _Hyperlights_Fog lights_Eastern Beaver Relays_Cee Bailey_4"speakers_Michelin PR4's_MoS2_Spiegler lines_TPMS_VDO
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RAL88 Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 736 Location: New Mexico Land of Enchantment and 365 days of riding USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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OK, so here are the amounts you want to use in the FD and Trans.
For the FD use 3 teaspoons which gives you a 5% mix
For the Trans use 5.5 teaspoons gives you a 3% mix
It was recommended to mix it well with a blender before adding so I bought the cheapest blender I could find and used that to mix it with.
Now of course I am going to experiment with Tungsten disulfide which is even slipprier(is that a word?) than the moly. So much in fact that it will not stick to itself and gives you a 0.6 micron layer on everything. This is also small enough to go through the oil filter and there are people out there using it in their oil and finding that it helps with heat and running smoother.
I have a lot of moly so if someone doesn't want to buy a pound of it I can bottle enough up for the FD and Trans and send it to you for $10 shipped in the cont US. _________________ Rich
"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R |
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Ted Site Admin
Joined: 03 Apr 2003 Posts: 1117 Location: Further
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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My driveshaft splines are now happily bathed in GD-525 and I will definitely say that stuff is STICKY. It is jet black and has the consistency of warm caramel. Went on easy enough after a thorough cleaning of the splines and hopefully it works as well as early reports indicate.
Also, thanks to Rich, my transmission and final drive are now both filled with Mobil-1 75/90 and the moly additive. Someone on the MOA site mentioned that it should not be used with synthetic gear oil (after I put it in LoL) but it seems to be working quite well with buttery smooth shifts. I still occasionally (OK, frequently) hit a false neutral due to the limited range of motion in my left ankle but less so after the new mix was added. _________________ Ted
KOG#1 |
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RAL88 Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 736 Location: New Mexico Land of Enchantment and 365 days of riding USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Ted,
There is no problem using the moly with synthetic oil. Some of the problems that have occured in the past is using moly that is already combined with another carrier and the oil and carrier don't mix. By using the powder you eliminate the carrier issue and it works just fine. _________________ Rich
"If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it work better"
*************
'96' K1100LT-SE
'97' R850GS-R |
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