K11 Owners Group

goldust

1993 k1100lt 100k + I am losing spark on cyl. #2&3 every once in while.
It is not the coil (I have switched them to test). It is not the wires (new).
left it sit over the weekend (boating) and it fires on all 4 cyls. When is ride for a mile on the highway it will cut out again. Any advice?

Tim (Midland Section) · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject:

Fuel Starvation ? Filter, pipes, pump etc.
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Grey haired riders don't get that way by pure luck
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goldust · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject:

It is not fuel!!!
coil, plug wires, & plugs are good.

garynali · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject:

Are the new plugs in 2&3 contaminated with oil or fuel when you pull them. If oil you have a cylinder problem, if fuel it's spark. If they are coming out clean i'd be looking at the injectors.
good luck
Gary C

goldust · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:59 pm Post subject:

IT IS NOT SPARK PLUGS
IT IS NOT IGNITION WIRES
IT IS NOT COILS

IT IS NOT NOT FUEL RELATED

THERE IS NO SIGNAL TO THE 2 3 COIL INTERMITTANTLY

Ted · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:31 pm Post subject:

Then unplug and reseat your Fi box and check all connections for corrosion. You might also want to dig up the HE sensor diagnostic procedure and see if the problem lies there.

When asking for help there is no need to yell Smile

People are suggesting these things because while you might be quite sure the problems lie elsewhere you have not mentioned how you tested or diagnosed to come to the conclusions and the suggestions are the most common.
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Ted

KOG#1

Stoked Steve · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject:

goldust · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject:

is there a diagnostic procedure for the he sensor and or the computer?
the he sensor gives the computer info then the computer gives the coils the spark signal.

all correct info was given in my first post

Shoganai · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:36 am Post subject:

Ok, calm down dear. Cool

I’m a girl, so I can say that.

”THERE IS NO SIGNAL TO THE 2 3 COIL INTERMITTANTLY”

How do you know with 100% certainty that there is no signal?
Did you use a Spark Coil Tester?

I had something EXACTLY like what you are describing happen to me and I thought with great certainty it was a spark problem.

It was in fact sticky valves.

I learned performed wet and dry compression tests.
I then did an oil change using a quart of Lucas Oil Treatment.
I ran it awhile then re-did the compression test.

The result is a far better running engine; no more ‘missing’ behavior, and it almost STOPPED burning oil.

Have you considered it being a combustion problem?
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1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak

The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT

Nana korobi ya oki

Shoganai · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:40 am Post subject:

Jim · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:02 am Post subject:

Hall Effect? Maybe?
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Jim
1997 K1100LTSE 94,000 - still has gremlins!
1995 R100RT Classic 16,650 crashed - repaired!
1992 K75RTP 46,000

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Shoganai · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:42 am Post subject:

whyoldbill

goldust · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:03 am Post subject:

i have switched the coils and am still not getting spark on 2&3, that right there eliminates the coil as being bad.
sticky valves will not cause a loss of spark.
i am still looking for a Hall Effect generator test.
[/u][/i]

Ted · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:54 am Post subject:

Diagnosing these problems can often be quite a frustrating experience. It often helps to list in detail what is going wrong, and when. From there, make a plan of attack by listing all the things it could be (start at the easiest to diagnose and go from there.) Then simply diagnose each looking for faults.

Remember these bikes are complex machines and systems like Motronic can often compensate for faults leading to a situation where multiple faults will finally cause a noticeable problem. It helps therefore to run through the entire list even if a fault is found and corrected.

For postings here in the tech section it helps to start by listing in detail just what is going on, when it is happening, and under what conditions. For instance, a bike that cuts out after warming up can be a much different issue than one that cuts out immediately when cold. List any additional info such as recent work performed, past problems that have been fixed, etc. You might also list any thoughts of what you think it might be, and any diagnosis already performed (listing in detail how the diagnostic work was done.)

From there, collect contributions from others on what the problem might be. The boards are a great self-check - if someone misreads the initial problems and makes an erroneous suggestion, usually someone else will point that out.

Once you have your list of possibilities, order them and start digging in from top to bottom.

All that said, the Hall Effect Sensors do go bad and exhibit the behavior you have listed. The test is here:
http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/intermittent-cutout.shtml
I'd urge you to look around a bit though as there are a lot of great articles out there particularly by the Oilhead crowd. One note, if you do find your HE sensor is bad they can be expensive to replace. There are articles out there detailing how to repair a sensor by replacing two very inexpensive, easy to find parts - I believe the only specialized tool you need is a rivet tool.
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Ted

KOG#1

Ted · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:05 am Post subject:

Found the article - a great read:
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

The actual parts are different but it is an excellent reference.
_________________

Ted

KOG#1

QXEA · Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 13 Location: PDX USA

What a great reference for troubleshooting and fixing HES!! Very Happy

Thanks Ted

Merle

garynali · Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject:

You're a wealth of knowledge Ted and a champion moderator.
Thanks
Gary C

goldust · Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject:

Thank you very much for everyone's input.
the pdf file on hall sensors was great.
I have already fixed my K
I just hooked up my lab scope to test and found one of them was bad.
I was able to find a generic one locally, and ended up replacing both of them.
Cost for each was $21.50.
The K runs like a champ once again(130k + miles).

whyoldbill · Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject:

you didn't happen to document any of your work, did ya?

While the Hall Effect sensors are not a really common failure, it sure would be nice to have it written up and added to the pile o' stickies.
If you could include the part number, etc. that would be awesome.
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