K11 Owners Group

malcolmt · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:14 am Post subject: Inst cluster hassle

Does anyone know if electronic schematics are available for K11 inst cluster ?
My ’93 K11 has behaved faultlessly until last week when I went through the mother of all thunderstorms. The RH indicators did their own thing, the speedo kept going to zero, and the gear indicator did the usual wet weather antics.
Everything is now fine once the bike dried out with one exception.. The bike is behaving as though its permanently in gear and the starter wont spin unless the clutch lever is pulled. This is despite the gear indicator showing ‘0’ and neutral lamp on.
It looks as though the diode shown in the wiring schematic is faulty.
Do schematics of the inst cluster exist out there??
Being very familiar with electronics I’m hoping to repair it at home.
I live in S.Africa so sending the guts to the US for repair isn’t a practical option.
Cheers
Malcolm(t)
Joburg, S.Africa
_________________
******************************
A Bike on the road is worth two
in the shed
******************************

Scott_Anderson · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:24 am Post subject:

Try this
http://www.cafezurburg.de/petergrans/pdf/K11002.2Fahrwerkschaltplanweb.pdf

It's a homemade schematic of the whole bike, you may have to translate some German, it may help. It's not what I would call a "real" engingeering schematic, but it's the best that I have ever been able to find.

A little further down in the document is some pictures of different areas and a pinout description of the the inst cluster.

One of these days I'm thinking of translating the entire diagram and printing it out for here at home.
_________________
Ride safe.

1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
Garmin StreetPilot 2820
Garmin Zumo 550
Garmin Zumo XT
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb
1997 K1100LT 0302488(R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)

Saltcreek · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:33 am Post subject:

Do you have the diagram that's at the back of the Clymer manual?
_________________
Jim

1994 K1100LT Mystic Red, bfd, 37000 miles, sold Sad

2009 Wilderness Systems Zephyr 155 ST
2002 Litespeed titanium

Flying Duck · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:11 am Post subject:

Here's the pinout for a K100 - not identical but most likely the same for a K1100 as far as the gear indicator/indicator circuits go:

Blue/Yellow -FROM: Speedo -TO: Speedo sensor
Black/Blue -FROM: Tach -TO: Coil
Blue/Green -FROM: Speedo -TO: Flasher relay (Turn signal 100m cancel)
Blue -FROM: Charge Lamp -TO: Alternator
Gray/Blue -FROM: Backlighting -TO: Ignition switch
Yellow/White -FROM: Gear display -TO: Gear indicator
Yellow/Blue -FROM: Gear display -TO: Gear indicator
Yellow/Blue -FROM: Gear display -TO: Gear indicator
Black/Green -FROM: Gear indicator and neutral lamp -TO: Clutch switch & right side switches
Brown/Green -FROM: Oil Lamp -TO: Oil sensor
Blue/Red -FROM: Left turn lamp -TO: Flasher relay
Blue/Black -FROM: Right turn lamp -TO: Flasher relay
Red/White -FROM: Clock -TO: Fuse 3 (always hot)
White -FROM: High beam lamp -TO: Left switches
Violet/white -FROM: Choke lamp -TO: Swtich on TBs
Violet/Black -FROM: Overheat lamp -TO: Temp relay
White -FROM: Fuel lamp -TO: Fuel level sender
Green/Black -FROM: Triangle lamp -TO: Fuse 1 (switched)
White/Blue -FROM: Triangle lamp -TO: Bulb monitor unit

If the threee wires from the gear indicator are grounded then I believe it sends 12V+ to the starter switch via the black/green wire. You could tap into those wires and make a workaround circuit with 3 relays in series.

Also the parts catalog shows the gear indicator circuit in the cluster as being a standalone part: 62111459238
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

malcolmt · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:59 am Post subject:

Hi all, thanks for all the advise, The cluster isnt fixed yet although I now believe I've got to the bottom of what went wrong.

The initial hassle with the starter interlock failed at the connection between the foil printed circuit and the multi-pin connector to the wiring loom. When I pulled the cluster apart several other connections failed and compounded the problems.

I've found a couple of UK breakers with MPH clusters, does anyone know of any continental europe breakers that may have KPH units ?

Malcolm(t)
_________________
******************************
A Bike on the road is worth two
in the shed
******************************

Shoganai · Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject:

Flying Duck · Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject:

Why not purchase an MPH speedometer and swap your old KPH face plate in? It's pretty simple - you just need to be careful with the needle because it's delicate. Then swap the KPH odometer in. You'll have a KPH speedometer with the right mileage on it.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

malcolmt · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:37 am Post subject:

Hi Duck, thanks for the advise. I wasn’t aware the odo is a separate unit and calibrated in KM’s or miles. My efforts to find a decent KPH cluster have found nothing. So it looks like I’ll be buying a MPH unit. I’ve just returned to work in the middle east so there is plenty of time to source a cluster, when I’m next home I’ll hit the road rather than fiddle with about fixing my flakey unit and possibly swap the odo in a MPH unit as and when I get time.
I’ve got plenty time here at work for ‘theoretical’ stuff, I just may put a design together for a test jig to speed up repairing my cluster as and when I get an opportunity.
_________________
******************************
A Bike on the road is worth two
in the shed
******************************

RobWheatley · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject:

As long as the Speedo & ODO are ok you should be able to just swap out the circuit board from an MPH one into the KPH one, In the UK all our MPH ones do have KPH speeds on them but the ODO does read in Miles not Kilometers.
Rob
_________________
1999 K1100LTIC Smooth and Quiet Smile

Cruise, BFD & HID
1996 K1100RS. dead but not forgotten.

Flying Duck · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject:

I did some experimenting today.

Here's what I discovered. You can replace just the gear indicator circuit board.

Here's how you can test the gear indicator:

Remove the instrument cluster:

Might be easiest to remove the back but not 100% necessary:

On the tachometer side pins: (I'd be very careful doing this. I'm not sure what wires did it, but I put my wiring harness on one pin off once and fried a bulb monitor.)

Ground the top pin.

Put 12v+ to the sixth pin down.

Grounding the 3rd, 4th and 5th pins in different combinations will get you numbers for the gears.

When they're all grounded (neutral) then the second pin reads a little over 6 volts. That enables the starter and illuminates the neutral lamp (I was using a small 12 volt battery so it may be higher when on the bike.)

It's a standalone part 62111459238 which retails for $122 in the US.

I have a tested good used one for $35 plus shipping. ($14 International Priority Mail to S. Africa)
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE

malcolmt · Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:03 am Post subject:

I believe my big mistake was removing the multipin plug with a good pull rather than turning the cap screw to extract the plug off its pins.
In doing this I've messed up the connection between the flex pcb and SEVERAL pins.

Now I'm at work I've started to make a diagram of the complete cluster internals plus a test rig so I'll be able to repair it on the bench.

I'll start a new topic as I make progress on the cluster diagram.
Only 11 more weeks till I'm home and able to ride.

Go well
Malcolm
_________________
******************************
A Bike on the road is worth two
in the shed
******************************