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red
Brick Rider
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Alberta, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Transmission Spline Lube? |
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There are three spline locations correct? One at the front and rear of the drive shaft, and one at the tranny!?!
Is the one at the tranny maintenance free, or do I need to pull the tranny to lube it?
Thanks |
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duckbubbles
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 361
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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It is not maintenance free and the transmission must come off to lube the splines on the input shaft. It is, however a relatively LOW maintenance item. Most bikes can go 30,000 miles or much more before it is actually needed. The symptoms of spline lube need are usually notchy and difficult downshifting.
Frank
_________________
85 K100/1100RS, 321,000 miles, 25 years
96 Ducati 900SS/SP, sold it
05 R1200ST, 35,000 miles, 5 years
400,000 BMW miles |
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Shoganai
Biscuit Fluffer
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 2234
Location: Culpeper,VA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| red wrote: | There are three spline locations correct? One at the front and rear of the drive shaft, and one at the tranny!?!
Is the one at the tranny maintenance free, or do I need to pull the tranny to lube it?
Thanks |
My personal history with this issue is this.
When I first got the K11, it was difficult to down shift. Mind you I was used to riding Honda's, which are very forgiving and this was my first BMW. So I thought it was user error.
I complained to my dealer who said that K's were just that way and I needed to be more aggressive in my shifting technique. That only overcame the problem by force but didn't fit it.
They did agree to lube the splines once and for about 2 months it was as smooth as the Honda's.
At that point, I just gave up and dealt with it.
Then on my way to Alaska, in High Level, Alberta I striped the clutch with the input shaft.
With the help of some locals, we tore it down.
This was the clutch plate.
This was the input shaft.
At the time, people were advising me that the shaft looked 'good enough' but I didn't like the look of it and since I was in that deep, I might as well replace it. An input shaft alone could not be found, so a complete tranny was found and shippped to me.
Since I didn't have the BMW alignement tool, I used a heat gun and broke open the old tranny and used the input shaft to make the alignement.
Look at the condition of the new-to-me input shaft.
This tranny had less than 1/2 the miles on it mine did. It looked brand new.
After it was all put back together, it shifted BETTER THAN EVER!!!!!!!!!
It has continued to be as smooth as a butterery weasel on a slip-and-slide.
My thinking on this issue is that the input shaft needed replacing way back when, but the mentality that 'it's just the way it is" could not accept that it didn't come from the factory like that.
I learned not to accept the party line and that my dealer at the time just didn't want to take on the project and it confirmed my belief that girls in general are not taken seriously by shop mechs.
Good luck, it's not too difficult (in hind site) and you'll be doing in your own shop without the added stress of being stranded in a lonely, outback town.
The whole story here. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142933&page=39
_________________
1993 K1100RS aka The Shop Whore
1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak
The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT
Nana korobi ya oki |
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mnb
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 660
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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My K11LT has had clunky shifting to some extent since the day I bought it. It also LOVES to hit neutral when pulling away on a left turn, instead of 2nd.
I complained about it at every service and I got a typical line of BS from the dealer that it just needed to loosen up, should take about 5,000 miles or so. Well, 5000 came and went and I mentioned it again, it should loosen up in 20k then said. That's when I knew they were feeding me a line. Needless to say, at 20k, nothing had changed. And the bike is long out of warranty now.
On my first service after warranty ran out, after the test ride, the mechanic noticed clunky shifting and recommended a spline lube, the very service I'd been asking for for 5 years. CalBMW in MountainView, California. Don't go there (and I have a list of other reasons why you shouldn't as well).
I've learned to just deal with it, but those damn neutrals really piss me off. Sometimes I have to fight it to get it in gear.
_________________
M N B
1997 BMW K1100LT ABS Special Edition
2003 Husqvarna TE610e
2007 Harley Davidson Road King
2009 BMW F800GS
2011 Husqvarna TE310
2014 Ducati Multistrada Pikes Peak MNB Edition |
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Shoganai
Biscuit Fluffer
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 2234
Location: Culpeper,VA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Mine had lots of false neutrals  until I replaced the tranny with new splines. Now, I almost never have one.
I'm also convinced the more aggressive shifting on my part only hassened the demise of the system.
_________________
1993 K1100RS aka The Shop Whore
1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak
The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT
Nana korobi ya oki |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10087
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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MNB:
Try running some Mobil 1 75/140 in the tranny. That might hhelp smooth things out a bit.
It also helps to really commit to the shift with your toes. I'm not talking about forcing it though. Get he clutch all of the way in and shift. I occasionally get false neutrals when my toes get lazy.
And make sure your clutch freeplay is adjusted properly. That can also make a big difference in how well a K bike shifts.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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Shoganai
Biscuit Fluffer
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 2234
Location: Culpeper,VA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Good advice 
K.I.S.S.  I need more of that in my life.
| Flying Duck wrote: | MNB:
Try running some Mobil 1 75/140 in the tranny. That might help smooth things out a bit.
It also helps to really commit to the shift with your toes. I'm not talking about forcing it though. Get he clutch all of the way in and shift. I occasionally get false neutrals when my toes get lazy.
And make sure your clutch freeplay is adjusted properly. That can also make a big difference in how well a K bike shifts. |
_________________
1993 K1100RS aka The Shop Whore
1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak
The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT
Nana korobi ya oki |
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mnb
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 660
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Flying Duck wrote: | MNB:
Try running some Mobil 1 75/140 in the tranny. That might hhelp smooth things out a bit.
It also helps to really commit to the shift with your toes. I'm not talking about forcing it though. Get he clutch all of the way in and shift. I occasionally get false neutrals when my toes get lazy.
And make sure your clutch freeplay is adjusted properly. That can also make a big difference in how well a K bike shifts. |
I did recently move to synthetic for engine oil. I'll try that as well.
I've been working on applying some of the k-bike shifting tips I've found, but old habits die hard...
I've noticed shops generally adjust the clutch too tight. CalBMW did that on my last service, so I loosened it up a tad.
_________________
M N B
1997 BMW K1100LT ABS Special Edition
2003 Husqvarna TE610e
2007 Harley Davidson Road King
2009 BMW F800GS
2011 Husqvarna TE310
2014 Ducati Multistrada Pikes Peak MNB Edition |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10087
Location: Bumf***, WA
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rydor
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1304
Location: Southern Illinois, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| This is good info, as I'll be changing out fluids soon... Refresh my memory , please, as to what synthetic to put in the final drive? Thanks |
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Mystic Red
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2330
Location: Twin Lakes Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I believe 75/90 is recommended. There has been an article on rear end failure and a possible cause was not using the recommended viscosity but I think it was on the newer generation bikes. Why not use the recommended viscosity to be safe? 
_________________
Scott Hespelt, '94 K11LT
K11 OG #466 |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10087
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Mobil 1 75/90 is what I've always used in all my Ks.
MR is right: The final drive problems are on the newer Ks.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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owrstrich
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2566
Location: CheezConsin
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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i still use dino oil... i think if i switch to synthetic i will have leaks...
we used to run dino 20w50 in our clutches in our go karts... then we switched over to syn 20w50 and we had all kinds of problems with leaks...
then applying the clutch wisdom to the engines... same thing...
now... dont want the same thing to happen to the bug eye brick cause i aints gotts no place to fix nuttin...
j o
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yeeeeeehaaaaaaa... |
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red
Brick Rider
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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My bike has never shifted smooth, but it has definatly worsened over the last riding season. I did replace the tranny fluid with some hi end synthetic, Gold.. something. Its in the gargage and I am not looking right now. Anyway I hope it is better after the lube job.
Thanks for your input. |
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Rider
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Posts: 222
Location: La Grande, OR
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: Spline lube |
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Shoganai,
I know all riders appreciate your top quality writing and photos of your repair projects. It's good encouragement to take care of these fine machines.
But you are scarin' me; I think I had better get out in the garage and lube my input spline. I've done it once but had been thinking about postponing it for another year.
Ride safe,
Ed
_________________
2007 650 Burgman, 2003 400 Burgman
Some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you. |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10087
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Point of referrence: On my 1990 K75RT, I got something like 8 or 9k between the onset of hard downshifting and the demise of my input splines. (A mere 1,600 miles from home.  ) At the time I did not know that this was a symptom of dry splines or I certainly would've done somehting about it.
When my K75RT started to show symptoms, it seemed to be especially annoying when downshifting during turns.
The BMW spec for spline lubes is 40k.
Given what a PITA a spline lube is, I'm of the opinion that 40k is fine unless you start experiencing the hard downshifts.
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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Shoganai
Biscuit Fluffer
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 2234
Location: Culpeper,VA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Spline lube |
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| Rider wrote: | Shoganai,
I know all riders appreciate your top quality writing and photos of your repair projects. It's good encouragement to take care of these fine machines.
But you are scarin' me; I think I had better get out in the garage and lube my input spline. I've done it once but had been thinking about postponing it for another year.
Ride safe,
Ed |
Thank you Ed.
As this thread progresses, I would like to other's post pics of their clutch plate / spline lube projects.
I think it would give us all a better understanding of the relationship between the shifting issues and the wear condition of the components involved.
One thing I've noticed about this forum is the dirth of pics in the Tech section. 
If a picture is worth a 1000 words ................... 
_________________
1993 K1100RS aka The Shop Whore
1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak
The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT
Nana korobi ya oki |
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Flying Duck
PsyKotic Waterfowl
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 10087
Location: Bumf***, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Spline lube |
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| Shoganai wrote: | | If a picture is worth a 5000 words ................... |
Fixed - we're talking BMW parts here. 
_________________
93 LT (x2)
94 RS
86-97 K75F(K75/100/1100 Frankenbrick)
86 K75C w/paralever, hi perf cams,TURBO!
91 & 92 K75Ss
91 K1
86 custom K100
14 WR250R
IBA #17739 (SS1K, BBG, 50CC)
Buy parts HERE |
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mnb
Flying Brick Rider
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 660
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Flying Duck wrote: | Point of referrence: On my 1990 K75RT, I got something like 8 or 9k between the onset of hard downshifting and the demise of my input splines. (A mere 1,600 miles from home. ) At the time I did not know that this was a symptom of dry splines or I certainly would've done somehting about it.
When my K75RT started to show symptoms, it seemed to be especially annoying when downshifting during turns.
The BMW spec for spline lubes is 40k.
Given what a PITA a spline lube is, I'm of the opinion that 40k is fine unless you start experiencing the hard downshifts. |
Thanks for the info. On my ride yesterday, I paid extra attention to any shifting difficulty. The difficulty I have is with upshifts. Downshifts are smooth.
Generally I experience the problem upshifting from 1st to 2nd although not all that uncommonly 2nd to 3rd it kind of sticks. I usually double clutch to resolve the problem unless it gives in quickly. Rarely 3rd-4th or 4th-5th, but it has occurred. I've even popped a false neutral from 4th to 5th before (once, maybe twice). But I know why that occurs and it's just a flaw in the design in how the gears operate. If you upshift softly, it's much more likely to happen.
_________________
M N B
1997 BMW K1100LT ABS Special Edition
2003 Husqvarna TE610e
2007 Harley Davidson Road King
2009 BMW F800GS
2011 Husqvarna TE310
2014 Ducati Multistrada Pikes Peak MNB Edition |
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Shoganai
Biscuit Fluffer
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 2234
Location: Culpeper,VA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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I also learned to 'pre-load' the shifter before pulling in the clutch. It seemed to help.
Has anyone had any experience with doing this?
_________________
1993 K1100RS aka The Shop Whore
1994 K1100RS aka Blue Streak
The long road is a rainbow and the pot of gold lies there.
So slip the chain and I'm off again,
You'll find me everywhere. I'm a Rover. - JT
Nana korobi ya oki |
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